Who says there is not enough work hack driver??? Is it not the case that the work is just not where you would like it to be!!
Maybe the public’s way of using our trade has changed and you need to change with it? There are other ways to make money than sitting on ranks and maybe its time you need to face facts??
Ian Shanks making his case in the ‘Not enough work argument’
The viewpoint of a Hack however is this: We are being made to look like robbers; we have always been made out as such, when the truth of the matter is that the Council sets the rate and the Private Hire operators always make sure that they stay beneath that rate. This is business I understand that. Blueline has a lot of work; Ian has sent me screenshots of his call logs over a two week period. I don’t know how many cars work from BLT but I would guess at around the 450 mark. So I’m thinking 75974 calls answered divided by 450 cars = 168 jobs each? (As a Hack I only did 65 jobs this week, working purely off the street. I am quite lazy though.) 168 jobs on a low rate with high rent and high fuel costs. My 65 jobs gave me a good wage with a bit left over and I spent more time with my family than most PH might.
The public are fickle, They will pay a PH, running around like a Blue arsed fly at 7pm, two or three quid to run them into Whitley Bay from say Monkseaton and when I take them back at 1am for 5 or 6 quid they happily hand it over and say “take a quid for yourself mate!” The point here is: You don’t need to be drastically cheaper than a Hack to get the work. The world has changed. Where people used to come out onto the street and hail a passing cab they now pick up their mobile phone and call for a cab. That’s not about cheapness it’s about convenience. PH don’t need to make us look like robbers to get work, you get work anyway through the convenience factor. This ‘Convenience factor’ is proven Later on when there are Hacks all over the street and people just get in…..out of convenience. PH Flimpers know this too as this is when they come onto the street, to take advantage of the convenience factor too.
Saturday night, at about 10 past midnight, I took a fare from Whitley bay centre to Whitley Caravan Park; I dropped off and was immediately hailed by two women, who asked, “How much to Newcastle?” “About £20″ I replied. To which they said “But it’s only £11.50 to Newcastle” They hired me anyway and the fare metered £22.20. Why would anyone want to travel that distance, at that time of night on any day of the week let alone a Saturday, for £11.50; Even when their own rate would meter much more than £11.50?
So, I agree the public have changed the way that they hire Taxis. If this is the case and that the work is not on the Ranks, though I don’t agree with that entirely as the unmet demand survey showed there is ‘no significant unmet demand’ but it also showed that there is work on the streets and on the ranks. Even David Wilson went on the record saying that the Taxi trade in the North East is thriving. If this is the case why do the Private Hire trade feel the need to be so ridiculously competitive i.e. £11.50 for a journey of almost twenty miles. If there is enough work out there why don’t we agree to charge the same and gain our customers on service? I think that could work and still give the large PH companies an advantage as they have the cash for large advertising campaigns and popular radio station quizzes. This way everybody would be on an even keel and public could only get an excellent service who ever they use.
{ 124 comments… read them below or add one }
Admin,
Personally, I don’t disagree with much that you say, but the law does having something to say about price fixing – and that is: it’s illegal, and large fines usually follow a conviction.
You may be right that the private hire trade could charge more than they do – they certainly have the freedom to set their own charges – and the public might be “happy” to pay higher charges for the convenience.
In relation to hackneys, you assert, “the Council sets the rate [of our charges]“, but that is not a comprehensive statement of the law, as I’m sure you know!
The Council certainly has the power to set the maximum tariff that may be charged, but the 1847 and 1976 Acts are entirely silent on whether a lower tariff may be charged. In the circumstances, the wording of section 65 of the 1976 Act seems to very clearly provide for lower tariffs to be set by individual proprietors; and allows for them to have their taximeters set to their own lower tariff. That statement of the law is supported by a 1993, unreported High Court judgment.
Despite being a 16-year old decision, it appears it hasn’t yet reached all councils in this area, because in the last few weeks, I’ve had to bring it to the attention of two councils. Discretion prevents me from disclosing the identities of the offending councils, but changes have been made to comply with the judgment.
Whilst Blue Line’s job statistics are impressive, did anyone else notice that almost 8,000 calls went unanswered? Does that not suggest there is much more work that Blue Line could be doing, if more calls were answered and more vehicles were available to them?
Finally, can I point out that to get the total picture, you seem to have to add the BLT and C’gar calls together, which reveals that BLT actually answered about 76,750 calls, rather than 75,974 relied upon by Admin for his calculations?
Is it not simply the case that hackneys will continue to charge the prescribed maximum tariff, because they wouldn’t make a living if they didn’t; and private hire will continue to charge low fares, because there’s always someone else who’s willing to undercut the established operators (or, at least, give the impression of being cheaper)?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
“Whilst Blue Line’s job statistics are impressive, did anyone else notice that almost 8,000 calls went unanswered? Does that not suggest there is much more work that Blue Line could be doing, if more calls were answered and more vehicles were available to them?”
No. The vast majority of lost calls would be at ‘peak hours’, so ask yourself david, what would these extra cars do when the peak period is over?
they would take work off the other drivers, is there enough for them to do that? i dubt it by the amount of not just BLT, but PH cars i see parked up talking to each other while they wait for a job through the day.
and david we dont need YOU to tell US what the situation is at offices, how much or how little work there is, i have worked at 3 PH offices, discretion prevents me from disclosing the identities of the offices, and you dont need gcse’s and a warm office job to know EXACTLY what the situation is. Experience of driving a taxi for BOTH PH & Hackney will tell you, put the hours in and there isnt a great difference, BOTH jobs you will find will be underpaid for the amount of hours you have done! and you want more cars!
ohh, and david, i thought you were some sort self proclaimed taxi adviser, not a blt advert which as time goes by you appear to be more of.
can i ask david, have youy ever sat in a car for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week? transported home, the argumentative, the aggressive, the ill, the ones with no money etc etc. ever had your car punched, kicked, ever been threatenede, had items damaged or stolen, my guess is no. you do this davi, and you ‘take home’ your £500 at the end odthe week, but it dont take n eisntein to work out that 70 hours work for £500, and the grief and the stress along the way is hardly worth it! and YOU want more cars!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson, You may know something about the laws we work under but you know nothing about the job at street level.I’m not sure but I’m willing to guess that the PH ‘drivers’ would rather be getting a better rate for their efforts. I’m not saying everyone should charge exactly the same rate but the gap that exists is not really good for anyone. If rumours are to be believed there are a number of drivers who have departed from LA since they lowered their rates obviously not happy at taking a further cut in income.Our rate in North Tyneside was recently increased,we are still waiting for the public notice to go in the paper,when it does I am sure that there will be many objections. What if HC’s froze their fares for such a time as PH had to catch up? we, the HC’s could actually hold down the PH rate.That would be interesting, even more HC’s would possibly go into offices to supplement their street earnings whilst in effect holding the operators to ransom by keeping the PH rate down. We actually hold an ace card in this respect, it might be painful for a time but it would be more painful for the operators who,at some point will wish to raise their rents and to do this they will need to raise the rate or the drivers will lose out again. Your own expertise will be useless in this scenario, your expertise is needed to find ways of increasing numbers and income(for operators)you really don’t have any economic interest in drivers for either yourself or them. Be honest David your job is to exploit the laws in order to create more ackers for your clients. When market forces will really decide the numbers of taxis in operation. As Andy Warhol pointed out in his reply lost calls don’t neccessarily mean more work over a ten hour shift as the lost calls are at peak times. This has been the thinking with HC’s in the past. Long queues had been observed on Friday & Saturday nights at peak times,which led to some bright spark Shouting ‘Unmet Demand! Unmet Demand!’ from the rooftops. More plates were issued and now we suffer offpeak waiting upto an hour for a fare. The unmet demand study pointed this out in Tynemouth with an average waiting time for a fare at 59 minutes. I warn the trade here and now These people, The so called legal advisers etc. are not here to look out for you! They have their own agenda and it is not in the best interests of any Taxi driver, Private Hire or Hack.They simply want to make money off the back of a trade that was doing a perfectly good job for years without them.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin,
Admin,
I said I agreed with you.
How you achieve the harmonisation of charges, or at least bring them nearer to each other, is difficult at best and illegal at worst.
Surely no-one can blame for the that law too?
Can I take it that you accept I am right that hackneys can charge less than the maximum tariff prescribed by the council?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson, HC’s can charge less, though Alan Newton would have you believe you can only discount the fare.It’s besides the point anyway as you have to get every Hack in the line to agree or you would have a situation where people were looking down the line for the best deal. Personally I am in favour of freezing HC rates until such a time as PH catch up. There are a lot more PH than HC and I think the PH drivers would feel the pinch long before HC and then start to pressure the people they pay rent to.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
Nice picture of `someones` work log,im sure Blueline are busy,and so they should be,charging as they do £1.30 per mile…or in that area.
Very good for the customer too,travel around the place for peanuts,in some cases even cheaper to get a `taxi` than a bus.
Mr Shanks may well prefer to see his customers pay as little as possible for their rides home,thats his business,BUT,if his drivers are so happy about the `in 1 case the driver was claiming over £1200 clear a week`,then why are more and more of his drivers working in Newcastle on `Out of Area` plates,and why did Mr Shanks not take up his operators licence in Newcastle.
Incidentally,David Wilson is quite correct in saying that the Council appoved fare structure is the MAXIMUM that we can charge…..there is NO MINIMUM level of charge,HOWEVER,the driver/operator HAS to charge a fare which reflects the running costs and at which a profit can be returned,so charging such low fares as some apparently are,£17 to Ashington (a distance of about 17/18 miles) in my view is not realistic, (except from the office owners point of view of course)
Incidentally,I do and have done discounted fares for some trips,mostly for fares going out of area,NOT for heaton or sandyford…and usually the drop in price is to `our` old tarriff,prior to september last year,so its a discount of arround 7%….not in my view an unreasonable fare to run on.
All your screen shows MR Shanks,is that if you charge peanuts,everyone will be queuing at your door to use you,after all human nature tells us that if you can get what you want for nothing….take it.
Now that blueline has competition from LA,in the cheapy cheapy stakes,are blueline going to reduce their fares still further to undercut LA….we wait with bated breath…..who will be first to offer `free private hire services in Newcastle.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@john dodds, MR Dodds, private hire firms have much follow on work, so we can and quite often do run on the what would be your equiverlant of £2.60 a mile. We do not suffer from the need of running all the way back to the city centre creating 50% dead milage
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, wot a crock ian nerly all jobs on sat night the most important night of the week for making money your jobs are allways dragging drivers up 2 6miles from the zone they are in to go pik up a student to take him round the corner for £3 so how many dead miles is the driver doing then ???????? so wot does the poor taxi driver do he blanks the job and flimps from where he should of got a job allocated to him in the first place thats the reason i hated private hire so much cos the operator makes all the money while the taxi drive just gets the crumbs!!! i think its a disgrace how the operator of theese private hire offices can make 1000,s a week becuase they can set the fares to buttons and then hav the balls to expect the drivers to make fortunes in taxi rent and office rent fo monday morning when they get fffd around by £3 quid jobs on sat ?????? thats why i switched to h/c cos then iam responsible if i dnt make any money then at least i know im not putn food on the table of the fat cat operators
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
Andy,
You might be right that the 8,000 lost calls were at peak times, but as I don’t actually work for Blue Line, I don’t know, but then again, neither do you!
For the avoidance of doubt, can I just point out that I did not state that Blue Line should recruit more drivers – I merely observed that there was possibly 8,000 more jobs that they could handle, if they could answer more calls and had more vehicles. All this actually demonstrates is a demand for booked taxis, because people want the convenience of knowing they’ve got a taxi.
You’re right, I’ve never driven a taxi of either description.
However, I did spend five years working as a process server – personally serving court orders, injunctions, eviction orders and the like on people. So, yes, I have been threatened, had my car kicked and projectiles thrown at me, etc, etc. I also worked long unsocial hours for little financial reward.
Can I assume you accept everything else I said?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson, Eight thousand calls unanswered – we used to have that desk clerk.
The truth is that if his drivers got their ar**s out of the Big Market and the rest of the town, then all this ‘booked work’ would be covered and they could leave the Hackney Carriage jobs to the professional drivers.
You put Pinocchio to shame Mr. Wilson, you must be on a good retainer. Anyway his drivers are now going to be filmed so I am told and we will see who the liar is.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,not every phone call is a job, people ring to cancel, find out where late cars are etc
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
Some random Points !
Why should we be charging the maximum rate that you as hackney’s choose to charge rather than you charging what PH firms charge. No-one forces you charge the MAXIMUM set by councils, and the private hire drivers are making money! This can be demonstrated by the average age of the PH vehicles is younger than the Hackneys.
The total calls that came into the building was in fact 83,910 answered calls, so many people were told “sorry we are fully booked” A further 7936 went unanswered. Then, I beg to wonder how many people got the engaged tone and did not get any sort of answer.
Then ADMIN now suggests, after all his fellow mates have cried for months and months, that “the trade is dead”, the “bandits have killed it” and after never disagreeing with them, that there is in fact work out there and even the unmet demand survey confirms that in some way.
Who is making you out to be robbers? Not me! I just run a business, and in that you need to work to your available market, this is something hackneys seem reluctant not to want to do.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,
just cause a private hire driver has a shiney newish car under the offices four year rule doesnt mean they are making any more or less than a hackney driver!
ok ian, so if i charge BLT rates, when i go to whitley bay for £11 i have to come all the way back to the city centre, empty and then wait for another job! so no thankyou, i will continue to charge what the council set, however i, as do many DO NOT want a rise for the forseeable future!
now i sit back and wait for the ‘join an office comment’
the truth is ian, i dont want to work an office, i have done it before for a couple of years, and i much prefer to take my chances on the streets. but if we all listen to what gets said on here about rates, publics habbits, wonderfull earnings, and now shiney new cars, we will all be at the offices soon eh? i doubt it most can see through the charade.
has any one else noticed that ian and david have suddenly sprun to life and wont seem to let this subject of charging less than the council set go?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol, Andy, I dont aim to change you in anyway, infact, I think you are, somewhat, unique enough.
When working for a Ph firm, it is most likly that you would not have to drive all the way back to town, as that is hackney carriage logic.
Andy, If you’re happy working the street. thats good. It’s the constant complaining about the loss of work, and making no money that you HC constantly go on about. So, maybe you and others who claim they are not making money should adapt to the change in trade, like all sorts of business have had to during various economic condtions.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
Mr Shanks,please get your facts right,the average age of Taxis in Newcastle i would guess is around 4/5 years old at present,which is slightly newer that some PH vehicles i have seen,so to state that because PH are cheaper and therefore run newer cars and better cars is pure `BULLSHIT`. Quite apart from the fact that as trade stands,EVERYONE`S trade..Mr Shanks,nobody is into or able to invest large amounts of money into anything…perhaps YOU are the exception Mr Shanks.
Incidentally,as you know,the Hackney trade are supposedly to be `wheelchair accessable` by 2012 i think the date was (i believe that has been deferred at present),but it does mean that we have a restriction on the type of vehicle that we can use,PH does not suffer the same restriction,so in future PH vehicles may be better standard to travel in than PH…time will tell.
Also,it will be interesting to see how long 1 driver stays with blueline charging £1.30 a mile and running an A6 Audi,don`t tell me he`s getting 35/40 mpg out of that,or of course changes his car.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@john dodds, i will repeat !
@john dodds, MR Dodds, private hire firms have much follow on work, so we can and quite often do run on the what would be your equiverlant of £2.60 a mile. We do not suffer from the need of running all the way back to the city centre creating 50% dead milage
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, lol hey your a real funny guy lol bluline drivers do make money i agree after they have worked about 100 hrs lol and havnt seen there family in weeks and eat sleep ,sh*t in the pile of crap yuo hav rented them lol then when it breaks down sya ooo sorry yo carnt hav replacement you need a berwick badge as well as north tyneside cos we not really arsed about looking afte drivers more interested in going for world record attmept at getn the berwick plated taxis in the uk ??lol yer your real funny guy pmsl lol
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, You don’t need to charge maximum rate if the HC’s freeze rates,you will eventually catch up. PH vehicles will naturally be younger as they do 3 times as many miles and don’t last as long,meaning most PH are always paying for a car. Of course there is work out there! There would be no HC trade if there were no work. Nobody doubts your fine business prowess and we HC’s do work our available market, some even pay you and others to work your available market. So what’s your point? I merely suggested that we,the whole trade work on service. You obviously believe you provide a very good service so why massively undercut the HC rate? If your service is so good then you stand to lose nothing by having a rate closer to the HC rate which would hugely benefit your drivers,drivers who pay you rent,who create your income. To keep them on such low rates, cheaper than public transport, is a bit rough to say the least. My hypothesis was simply ‘everyone can make money here without a fuss’ simply by making a taxi journey a similar rate wherever you hire it. The public would feel less confused,the drivers would all be making money and the operators will still get their bit.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin, Admin why dont the Hc’s freeze or lower there rates if things are as bad as some are saying? Admin, you clearly, and boldy state “Of course there is work out there!” So please continue to promote this, to all other HC’s that visit this site and tell them to therefore stop moaning!
I have said in the past, and I say it again, that there is purpose for both trades: us to take them in, and you to take them out, if the public wish to use that option.
If they dont, will you all stop having ago at the PH’s just because the public chosse not to use your services.
you say “we HC’s work your available market”… please explain this. The impression the hack trade gives is that they are generally one man and his dog operations, that sit in there cars waiting for someone to come to them and pay the maximum rate you have been authorised to charge.
Why should anyone put there rates up to suit the HC’s, if they can, and are making good money doing it another way than the hack way.
Well, I am pleased you’re promoting to everyone that “everyone can make money without fuss” Maybe now the rest of the hackney trade will stop complaining?
Should all high street shops be none competative and charge the same? For example, if you are wanting our society to live in ‘one-price’ system, why do we need a Primark and Marks&Spencer? I can answer that question for you, different audiences want different services, not a one single operation.
Oh i dont think the public are confused, I think they clearly know what they want, and we do not live in a ‘Communist’ style society.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, There’s no talking to you, read my comments twice before you answer. Or do you intentionally twist my words? I’m not here to argue the toss with you. I merely state the position as it stands and how it could be improved.If you want to stamp your feet because you don’t like what i’m saying that’s upto you. I have taken onboard things you have said in the past and my thinking is in line with yours, I want what’s good for everybody. Do you really liken yourself to Primark? ‘we HC’s work your available market’ are you saying that no Hacks pay you rent? I have none of this silly “them and us” attitude I can assure you. I never have and I never will,I’ve worked both PH & HC in my time I even owned an office once so I have no axe to grind. You are just taking it that way because I put forward some things for debate. I would like to think that you will be a bit more understanding when we all meet at the forum or is this the way you want to debate. I’m happy to listen to anyones point of view,please allow me mine.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin, i have no axe to grind with you either, but you do show a clear slant towards the hack trade even by suggesting everyone should charge hackney maximum rate!
You have never before criticized your fellow hacks when they complain, but now state as below
“If this is the case and that the work is not on the Ranks, though I don’t agree with that entirely as the unmet demand survey showed there is ‘no significant unmet demand’ but it also showed that there is work on the streets and on the ranks”
“As a Hack I only did 65 jobs this week, working purely off the street. I am quite lazy though”
My 65 jobs gave me a good wage with a bit left over and I spent more time with my family than most PH might.
So if you can be lazy, and still make a good living, those that aim to work hard should make a very good living, should they not? So what are they crying about, and why are you not telling them yourself you can make money?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin, P.S. I would be more than happy to compare myserlf to a world-wide, successful business like Primark.
Aswell as this, I have continuously alllowed you to air your views. All i’m doing is asking question on them.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, I am totally agreement with meester shank he compare himself to primate.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@ian shanks,
Hello Ian,
The last thing I want to do is have an argument with you, but for the process of debate and sensible dialog on here, could I just explain the history of certain things and then ask you to comment on certain things within North Tyneside, as we do not concern ourselves with things outside North Tyneside, and Blueline was founded on the back of Hackney Carriages originally, and we did speak about this in 2006, you may care to recall, before I sat the “Transport Qualifications” I currently hold.
What is a Private Hire Operators Licence, well I am sure you will agree that it is a Licence to allow a Proprietor to either trade as a “Sole Trader”, “Partnership”, or, “Limited Company”, and once the Application is made it is subject to Planning and Highways considereations, I think we both agree on that within North Tyneside.
Now when a “Licensed Operator” decides to purchase a competitor to increase the customer base the “Operator Licence” cannot be purchased in law, as it is unique to the Applicant making the Application, therefore what is purchased is the “Office” with any Planning consent and there “Parking” facilities, providing they continue to trade from that premises, otherwise nothing has been purchased except a set of “Telephone Numbers” that were applicable at the Address stated in the purchase of what was purchased and nothing more, it is not the case of I bought that “Company Licence” and therefore my Licence increases in size, because an “Operator Licence” is nothing more than a “Licence” to make the provisions to accept a customer booking and nothing more.
Ian, please think before you answer, because the law is the law and many questions have now to be answered at the Licensing Forum about Private Hire Operations and what they are allowed to do and not to do in relation to Vehicles and Drivers etc.
I am trying to help you here, not create a “them and us” situation here, Please Ian, think about the law and “Owner Drivers” case law from 1968 and how it applies to you.
Thanks for taking the time to read this Ian.
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls, hey sausage (davy walls) u go on about not wanting to upset ppl and have a sensible debate u make my laugh when u were chairman of the nthca if u could not get your own way u would just hoy yours papers up in the air and shout and ball then storm out
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@hack driver from the coast,
Good Morning,
Once again a post from some faceless person unwilling to identify themselves, because they do not want anyone to know who they are.
If you were really a member of the NTHCA then can you please enlighten me to this incident, as once again the pinochio mentality of a faceless person speading rumours of fiction has been released.
In the past, yes I have been very vocal at NTHCA meetings, because I am passionate about the trade, just like a passionate Newcastle fan is passionate about there team, and yes drink was banned from around 1998 at the NTHCA because it was seen as rocket fuel to the meetings.
Now to my Chairmanship in 2006, if you were a member then you will recall the events of 2006 and how I became Chairman, but because certain people thought at the time I had a hidden agenda my Chairmanship was a difficult one, were I did indeed set-up Taxicall and tried to modernise the the Dinosaurs of the Industry.
Then in February 2007 because I am a man of principle and the democratic process, I made a statement before a vote on the subject of Taxicall and stood by my word, as the membership chose not to go with full implementation. and I resigned as Chairman, because it was a vote of no confidence as I saw it at the time.
I then went on the study for my Qualification I now hold, and the NTHCA went on to adopt Cobalt Taxicall in 2008.
Therefore was I so wrong in the first place, I think not, but there you go no elaborating of the facts or paper throwing tantrums as you tell the story.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@David Walls,
Dave,
i’m a little confused as to what point you are trying to get across here?, i am also a little puzzled at what you are trying to achieve and what the reason is as to why you seem to be trawling through law books ??, the only point i can gauge from your comments, which in the interest of the “process of debate and sensible dialog” as you put it, is you seem to suggest, i am operating to many vehicles for my license and you think i need to comply with the law and down size?
“the Law” itself is a debate which would cause huge disagreements as all judgments are just someone’s interpretation of the “written Law” and this is done by people far cleverer than you or I, and is the reason many cases are adjourned or result in passive judgments being passed, (us the laymen call this sitting on the fence, i’m sure you have heard the term spoken and used before), as these highly intelligent people can’t agree their opinions (and please remember it is only their opinion) of the “written law” people love to quote. If the law was clear cut and simply right or wrong we wouldn’t need courts or judges and simply have “Judge Dread” style police who would simply enforce the law (i’m sure you have seen the film or read the comics.., slight humor but i’m sure you understand what i mean…..
In the famous words of Lord Justice Kennedy (31 years after the case law of 1968 you quoted) in the 1999 case he says “the law needs to reflect the state of technology and not be 23 years behind it” many people refer to the law as and ASS, by which they mean it is wrong, or needs to be updated, and it would take a brave man to argue about that point. The people we are forced to deal with within power, cannot keep up with the needs of changing laws so they only get addressed when there is “brownie points” to be won from their efforts.
the sad point in all of this is no one seems to care anymore what happened to our old friend “common sense” which has passed away without anyone really noticing his sad demise. If this land where to follow the laws as they are written word for word along with health and safety it would be dangerous to breath and illegal to emit Co2 into the atmosphere, fly kites, push prams on public pathways as these are still illegal under “written law” a world of mothers pushing prams down the middle of the public highway, is this a world we want to live in ??, thankfully some common sense prevailed on these few issues, you understand where i am going with this don’t you.. you seem to be head down into law books reading word for word, may i suggest you give yourself a break and let your common sense prevail.
You are correct in saying my father was one of the founders NHODA (Northern Hackney Owner Drivers Association) back in the early fifties, but you are incorrect in saying Blue Line was built of the back of this as my father broke away and set up Blue Line in 1958 because he did not like the way the NHODA was going.
One last point Dave, while i thank you for interpreting the meaning of our “operators license” and explaining the old and antiquated boundaries associated to the said license, i must remind you our license was granted in 1958 which is 10 years prior to your well studied 1968 case law, granting us grandfather rights outside the law meaning we don’t have to go through town and country planning for the number of vehicles we operate, i have consulted with my own employee who also holds a CPC in Transport Management Which you state you own, but he confirms “grandfather rights” are not part of the curriculum this course covers and therefore feel i must point these out.
i hope you take the humor in the manner it was intended
Ian Shanks
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, Come on now Mr. Shanks admit that David Wilson wrote this for you. Everybody knows you don’t do joined up writing. Can you do a double bow in your shoes yet?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@ian shanks,
Good Morning Ian,
I hope you are fit and well, as I am suffering with the flu, but on with the show as they say.
I wish to make it clear Ian, I did not accuse you or Blueline of anything, I mearly asked your opinion on the subject matter after stating what the 1976 Act actually relates to in the Operator Licence (Section 55) and as I am sure you agree the Application is judged on wheather a person is seen as a “fit and proper Applicant” meaning the Operator Licence cannot be transferred to another person, as it is a unique process to the Applicant Only and what they can do if granted an Operator Licence.
I also asked about “Owner Drivers”, but you seem to have avoided answering what was actually stated in the original considerations by the judge because you prefer to generalise factors to avoid the facts of the case, as the case involved a company set up as, the Manufacuring, the Sales and finally the Distribution.
The Sales held the “Operator Licence” in relation to the Company and the Distribution was to be with “Owner Drivers” if lawful, and the case set the standards for the Transport Industry “Owner Drivers” needing to comply with certain conditions.
I thank you for making me aware that the original name of the NTHCA formerly the NTTA, and formerly the National Federation of Taxicab Association was back in your dads day known as, the Northern Hackney Owner Drivers Association (NHODA), as I am sure the Secretary of the NTHCA will like this old history to add to the Arcive Records of Council Minutes they currently hold.
Ian, I never mentioned “Grandfather Rights”, because that factor can only be applicable, if a business has always traded from the original address with the original Hackney Carriage Licences, but you are correct that it does not get covered in my Qualification.
Richard Branson is a successful businessman in many fields and his Virgin Company challenged British Airways in the Airline Industry, about there market share situation and proved his case by examining the trading practices that were beiing applied and so why can the Hacknay Carriage Industry not challenge the Private Hire Industry practices, after all you did introduce along with others the “Out of Area” Hackney Carriage working Private Hire?
Ian, I have no hidden agenda, I merely asked for your opinion on the subject matters under discussion and nothing more.
Hope this is acceptable dialog, and thank you for your response.
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@ian shanks, so can i lol how many blueline ph drivers do you know can afford to shop at m&s on your tarrif ????????lol
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin,
i would be willing to bet that IF ph charged the same as hacks, neither would be any better or worse off. the public will always ph it in, and then the vast majority will hack it home!
the only doubts would be to these contracts that the PH firms have to give the lads a day shift!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol, who says its got to be private hire who have to raise fares why dont hack reduce thiers
who is thinking of the public’s pocket ?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, I did and you just repeated it for me….Thanks
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin, Admin, it seems you have failed in answering the questions I have asked.
So, I would just like you to confirm your previous comments, especially: “Of course there is work out there!”
Therefore, are you happy to presist to encourage and endorse that there is available work for HC’s?
Also, judging by your earlier statements it evidentley seems you agree with my point of view that their is work out there.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,At some point during this long,drawn out Tit for Tat I did say: ” I have none of this silly “them and us” attitude I can assure you. I never have and I never will….”
I say this because I remember a comment of yours from 2008/08/27 at 9:46am where you said “while we ourselves create a this animosity between us it will always become hard to resolve such problems. i myself would like a working relationship with the hackney trade so we can help one another with problems that drivers may cause or do ! but this needs the barriers brought down of the THEM and US so we can at least start talking.” It has been in the spirit of this comment from you,last year Ian,That I started this particular debate. What part of this debate,from your side of it,relates to the above comment of yours from last year? I put a sound,reasonable point of view across because I thought you wanted a ‘working relationship’ with the hackney trade. You just keep thinking everybody is having a pop at you! I could pull other comments you have made, where you come across quite reasonable , then others where you just go back to animosity. Every comment ever made on this site is still here. They make both good and bad reading. Tossers aside there are comments from yourself and comments from the Hack trade which make some sense. Then there are weeks like this one,where stamping of feet occurs and backs start to get up.I’m not going to get wound up by you or anyone else. So I’ll sit back and you can keep repeating yourself until you want to just talk. You really have to take a look at yourself and what you write, I mean this with the best intentions, you should not allow yourself to get so wound up over a few words on a small website. Get David Wilson to write for you…it’s impossible to wind that kid up,he’s got the gift of the gab, Whereas you just treat a conversation as a scrum in a game of rugby!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin,
I’m flattered – is that really three compliments in one?
1) “It’s impossible to wind that kid up” – you might mean “thick-skinned”, but I’ll presume you mean I’m someone who will respond calmly, objectively and rationally with a reasoned argument (or occasional admission!)
2) “kid” – as someone in his 40s, it’s a long time since someone called me a kid – perhaps I’m not greying as badly as I thought?
3) “he’s got the gift of the gab” – a talent I’d professionally describe as “advocacy”, which is why I now do what I do!
Thanks Admin.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, That’s twice you repeated what I said!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Admin, could anyone shed any light as to why there is allof a sudden so many ghd hack drivers working for bluline ,are blueline planning on opening an office in gateshead i hear alot of the private hire driver (dean & ghd central )are getiing a little worried .
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ghd hack driver,
They are looking to open an office in Low Fell, apparently.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@davey, isnt that where dean taxis office is? that will put the wind up there kilts
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ghd hack driver,
It will. Thats why they are desperate to sell. Expect a takover soon!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage TradeHello
If you have read the News recently Greggs Bakery are planning to open 600 new Shops Nationwide, why?
Because they are successful and make a profit and want to expand their service and product!.
So why should’nt Blueline expand South of the River? (If they are planning to do so)
It’s a good idea that if a Taxi firm covers three or four Borough’s, it should open a Office in each, so there Genuine Drivers are not accused of stealing work or Flimping!!!
At the end of the Day, if People in Gateshead, Newcastle and South Tyneside need to use a “Wallsend” Taxi firm, it does’nt say much about there loacl Taxi firms does it?
Regards
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Stephen Arthur,
that idea of drivers buying is long gone. They were going to buy for something approaching £3m!! And Alex was going to finance them buying chuckying up expensive cars, and of course he offered to saty on as a manager for only about £50k per year. What a gent. Could an office work with 80 or so bosses? what do you think!! They are effing mad!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Stephen Arthur, thats bullshit speaking fom experiance its mostly tramps and students who use bluline because they are cheaper than buses and know that if the want to take the piss and go from osbourne rd to grovener place the can phone bluline and they will send 1 of hte poors taxi lads whos in killy to come pik up some scruffy student who will be paying in pennys thats why outsiders phone bluline my friend not because blueline is this perfect taxi company its becuase quite rightly other firms wouldnt take the piss out of there drivers and send them 4 miles to not even cover a 1/4 of a mile job for £2 !!!!!!!!!!and i should know cos iused to work for mugline
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson, I think I was quite accurate!I was born a manc and call everybody Kid. The news item about the puma is already on the site..Left sidebar but thanks anyway Kid!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
I’ve just seen a green peugot,newcastle private hire plated with a full width topsign with LATAXI on it. He flimped a fare outside Pacific. I know it was a flimp because they asked me first.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
You are right there about LA Taxis, Sunday night gone, I had a Legit Booking from Blu Bamboo, I was approached by two Students asking me to take them to Quay Point at Manors, “Sorry I said|, I am booked”, and pointed them to the Toon hacks further down, my Customer turned up told me to wait and she will go and get her mate.
Just after that a smart well spoken woman in her late thirties, asked me to take her to Corbridge, sorry I can’t, however she then approached a LA at the Vault and without a glance he just picked her up and off he went!!.
Scenarios like this prove that it is not just the NT based Bandits and NT Cars that cause mayhem in Town, it’s Newcastle’s very own PH and resident Bandits, anyway is’nt the Vault Pub, Derwentside licensed Taxis very own Newcastle based Rank????
Every time you do a booking from the Bigg Market it’s the same Derwentside squad sitting at the top, why do they get away with it?, I bet if they worked at Blueline they would’nt!, the fact is that they are Town based and they get overlooked by the town Hacks!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
Blue Line is not opening a office in Gateshead as we do not feel we need to, we have work in that area already and drivers choosing to operate with us. So what is the purpose of a physical presence?
British airways has its main call centre in Newcastle Business park and not at Heathrow or Gatwick. Why is it assumed you need to be in the area when a advertising phone calls is all that is needed?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,
Morning Ian,
I have read with interest your reply yesterday to me and I have to say it is priceless, because you employ a “Transport Management” person with my qualifications, and therefore they will understand Unit 1 of the Syllabus called “Understanding the Legal and Business Context for Road Transport Operations” and you would be right to state that a “Private Hire Operator” does not need to employ such a qualified person, but I hope you will agree that in April 2009, North Tyneside Council adopted the “Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Licensing Policy” and the Private Hire section 4.1.6 reads;
Operators need to familiarise themselves with the law and ensure they employ suitable work methods in order to comply with the law and avoid committing licensing offences.(The “Owner Drivers” case law decision of 1968, that you say you know nothing about)
Now section 4.1.4 reads;
A Private Hire Operator must ensure that every “Private Hire Vehicle” despatched by him is licensed and driven by a person who holds a Private Hire Drivers Licence.
All three Licences(Operator, Vehicle and Driver) must be issued by the same Licensing Authority.
Now having recieved a copy of this Document at the Licensing Forum can you please explain to me and the readers, how a regulated by the Local Licensing Department Private Hire Operator, just because you have a North Tyneside registered Telephone Number registered to the Operator Licence Application Address as then stated 33 Sycamore Street, Wallsend, entitles you to trade with “Out of Town” Hackney Carriages, when section 4.1.5 reads;
It is a criminal offence to operate a Private Hire Vehicle” without an “Operator Licence”.
Now of course you are going to say they are “Hackney Carriage” and they do not need an Operator Licence, but for that to be true the “Hackney Carriage” must be within its own Licensing Department Area to be complying with its own Byelaws, not another Licensing Departments Private Hire or Hackney Carriage Licensing Area, when either accepting or making the provision with the passenger in law.
The Brentwood verses Gladen Case in 2004 stated Mr Gladen was using Brentwood Licensed Hackney Carriage Vehicles only to fulfill the passenger provisions and bookings he accepted through his home phone line at his Brentwood Operating Centre and in no way did the case examine the lawfulness of a Hackney Carriage from outside Brentwood working for Mr Gladen, meaning everything was “Licensed” by the same Licensing Department or Authority, and working within the same Authority.
Now Ian, as you well know Blueline is regulated by North Tyneside Council, not Newcastle, or Gateshead, or Berwick, or Derwentside, and unlike British Airways who is not regionalised in its trading practices, Blueline is regulated by North Tyneside Council you will find and the Local Government(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 allows this to be the lawful position.
I am sure you are going to dispute this statement of facts, but please remember it is stated as dialog for debate.
Thanks
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls, Dave,
I have also read with interest your reply, and I also once again thank you pointing the difference in “Hackney Carriage” and “Private Hire” although can I point out at this juncture I do know the difference. As for employing a “transport Management person” with “your” qualifications, this was no more intentional than me choosing between weetabix or frosties this morning, now by this I mean this person was right for the job and simply had this qualification and was not given the job “because” of the qualification. This person is employed to run his part of the business, not use his qualification to express what his “opinion” of the law is, and remember we covered this the other day it is only an “opinion” and far cleverer people than you or I must decide its true meaning (the written law that is)… please correct me where I am wrong in the following statement, there are two type of CPC qualifications in transport management one in “haulage” and one in “public carriage vehicle”, neither of these subjects cover taxis or taxis licensing or taxi law. All you end up with initially is an brief understanding of legal and business context for Road Transport Management in either wagons or buses, and not the full understanding of every issue, this you learn from doing it, it’s a bit like passing your driving test because once you pass then you really start to learn to drive without someone there telling you what is right and wrong, you don’t pass your test and become a first class driver do you… So while I really don’t want to be derogative (and please believe me when I say this) to anyone with these qualifications, I fail to see how a two minute run around a class room would outstrip someone’s QIRB which I have now held mine for some thirty years or more
Now Dave we can all regurgitate case law and dates if you wish, which in context looks impressive but in reality the answer you don’t want to hear lies within the case law you seem so well versed on. Now to answer your question with what I guess is the answer you don’t want to hear… “What entitles me to use out of town Hacks” , the reason behind my allowance to do this was the judicial review of the 1846 town police clauses act which (I’m sure you are aware) governs hackney carriage and was forced by our beloved North Tyneside Council back in 2003 being the North Tyneside Vs Blue Line Taxis, which the judge ruled (due to the written law), hackney carriages are legally allowed to work as private hire vehicles. this was again reviewed (as I’m sure you are aware) in 2008 at high court this time forced by our beloved Newcastle City Council (may I add all at tax payers’ money), which the ruling remained the same other than the judge declaring it was lawful but left it to the local authority to exercise its discretion.
There were of course lots of big words in the judgement to which our barrister translated as meant, but it will take a brave man to step up and define what seems to be the stumbling block of the word “remote” but as we sit here today the legality stance on your term “out of town hacks” remains the same, whether you or I like it or not, and any case law be it our or your own interpretation of it changes nothing.
I hope this answers your question and once again please take the humour in the manner it was intended.
Cheers
Ian Shanks
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,
Good Afternoon Ian,
As we are both respectful of each other and we accept the fact that we both have different opinions that revolve around either “Plying for Hire” or “Pre-Booked in Advance” Operations, we will never allow ourselves to fall out over differing opinions, we are agreed Ian.
Now having different opinions and different qualifications, I hope you will agree that really an Oxford and Cambridge Results Certificate really is not just a two minute run around a classroom, but as I have explained to the readers what my Qualification CPC is known as a Certificate of Competence in National Road Passenger Transport Management, and you are correct it is not for the “Haulage” side of the Industry, but for the “Passenger” side of the Industry, but I am afraid it does cover vehicles with 8 or less passenger seats known as a (HC) Hackney Carriage for vehicle Road Tax Classification. Now as you will hopefully be aware the (PLG) Private Light Goods for a motor car or multi purpose vehicle Road Tax Classification is for a Private Hire Vehicle meaning your Industry, now if we were to go down that path it is indeed “Haulage” of goods(a passenger is a classification of goods or burden in law). Now you are, as I have said before, quite correct in saying that these Qualifications are not under the Act of Parliament in place to regulate your Private Hire Industry in law by the 1976 Act, as there is no section that covers “Transport Managers” as such, except that I am sure you will agree you would like to see the raising of standards within the industry to do with “Enforcement” to just mention one area that we both agree on.
Now North Tyneside Council, because of the “Act of Parliament” stating that the “Commissioner” should sign the licence on behalf of the Local Council, and since 1st January 1975 the person who signes the Licence is suppose to be the “Deputy Traffic Commissioner” as the Traffic Commissioner was in 1975 the person who signed the PSV/HGV Licences that are now the PCV/LGV Licences, and because of the Transport Act 1986, the over 8 passenger seat Traffic Commissioner has moved from being Local Council Area upto 1968, to Newcastle Based until 1986, when the region became governed by Leeds as the Traffic Commissioners Base, but the Local under 8 passenger “Deputy Traffic Commissioner” remained within the “Local Council Authority” to oversee Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Licensing, and that person employed by North Tyneside Council should be Oxford and Cambridge Results Qualified in Road Passenger Transport at minimum as a Qualification for holding that post within the Local Council after 1975.
Ian, could you please explain to the readers what QRIB stands for and who awards the Certificate of Competence for your Qualification, as it will be stated on your Certificates, if you can still find yours after 30 years, and I say this with respect for you and your qualifications Ian.
Now in relation to 2003 that you talk so much about, can I please just point out Mr Justice Mackay stated “it is always difficult to adjudicate on costs when one has not decided a case” meaning it is not a “Judgement” on the facts, Only the awarding of Costs!
Ian with respect here, you do have a habbit of generalising of the situation to try to prove your point and “Costs” are not the basis for it is allowed, as your Lost Court Case in 2001 stated Blueline could only use North Tyneside Vehicles to understake its Operational Bookings it had accepted as “Contracts from Passengers” at its North Tyneside Based Operational Centre at 33 Sycamore Street, Wallsend in North Tyneside was the “Judgement” in that case.
Ian, I do respect you, and how you choose to operate Blueline, but you have to accept that you cannot go on generalising the facts to suit your needs.
Hope we are still friends, as I do respect you, but we have different views and opinions, as you have said.
Thanks
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls, Dave, i have no intention of falling out with anyone!
In the case Blue Line V North Tyneside council which was a High Court judicial review we were awarded costs because the London based Barrister Representing North Tyneside,at the steps of the court room advised the councils solicitors to “throw the towel in” as they did not have a case to fight, which is why the judge did not make the decision, it was made outside between the barristers. The judge simply agreed the facts and awarded costs.
I do not see that as generalising. its factual
Anyway the QIRB which your refer to, I peronally believe to be one of the highest standards you will come across, this becomes more worthy of its title as time goes on.
Its known as “QUALIFICATION IN RUNNING BUSINESS”. Mine is only 30 years old, but has been challenged, questioned, and even battered many many times, but to date its has survived the test of time through many economic and challenging times, far to many to mention!
hope this qualification holds your respect ?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@David Walls,
Dave,
The argument you are advancing is that argued (unsuccessfully) by Berwick Borough Taxi Association (represented by the National Private Hire Association) in the Newcastle v Berwick High Court case last year.
If you read the judgment (again), you will see that the judge wholly rejected that argument.
He expressly stated: (i) a hackney carriage is not a private hire vehicle; (ii) refused to distinguish (in the legal sense) or to say that the decision in Brentwood v Gladen was wrong; (iii) confirmed a hackney carriage could be worked anywhere in the country, without the owner or driver committing any offence; and (iv) declared that councils had a duty to ensure, so far as possible, that the vehicles they license should not be “exclusively or predominantly” used “remotely” from the area of the council that licences them, because it is difficult (and could be impossible) for such a council to fulfil its regulatory responsibilities.
Whilst parliament enacts legislation, it must be remembered that the courts are responsible for interpreting the law. Anyone who relies solely on what an “Act of Parliament” says, does so at their peril, because it might well have been “interpreted” differently by the courts. Like it or not, the opinion of that judge or those judges count; and ours do not!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
Hello David,
I have read with much interest, your beliefs and opinions, yet like Ian said, these are our opinions and they count for nothing.
If you will allow me to demonstrate something to you that was not put before the “Judge” in the Newcastle verses Berwick Case, and it comes from the “Motor Car Act 1903″ that was written some 56 years after the “Town Police Clauses Act 1847″ as the “Motor Car Act 1903″ states in Minute 2(1);
Every motor car shall be registered with the council of a county, or county borough, and every such council shall assign a seperate number to every car registration with them.
This was done so to control the Local Vehicles Applicable at the time, with consideration given to section 41 and 42 of the Town Police Clause Act 1847, furthermore section 52 concludes the offence for not displaying the exhibited number, just like the Motor Car Act 1903.
Now David, I understand you are a former Policeman as well as a former Licensing Officer, important word being “Former”.
Now until 1975, when North Tyneside Council was formed Tynemouth was a Royal Borough and that meant it had its own Registration Marks for our area issued in North Shields, that are now centralised at Regent Centre, Gosforth, since Tynemouth lost its own vehicle licensing sysyem to a regional system for the North East at Gosforth, because originally every type of licence was issued by Traffic Commissioners for the Local Area originally, and this is what was the original foundation stone of Local Councils, that has never changed in relation to Hackney Carriage or Private Hire for that matter, as in 1986 when the Transport Acts of 1981,1985 and 1986 were under construction, as “Acts of Parliament” the Government took the decision that “Hackney Carriages” that were 8 passengers or less known as “TAXIS” were not going to be included in any revision of the Transport Act for Privatization, and all Hackney Carriage Taxis would remain under Local Council Rules and Regulations attached by the “Deputy Traffic Commissioner” for each Local Council Area, meaning they were not part of the Government Sell Off in October 1986.
I would therefore conclude that “Remote” was concluded by Government to mean within the Local Council Authority Area for the “Exclusively, or Predominantly” used Hackney Carriages, that were applying for such a Licence with Berwick-upon-Tweed, and these should have been only issued to an applicant who wished to comply with the “Ply for Hire Byelaws” that are only “Enforcable” within the Local Council Authority Area, and this should be the only consideration given to any applicant for a Hackney Carriage Taxi Application within Berwick-upon-Tweed, now one of the six Northumberland County Council Authority Zoned Areas, that are still currently in existance at present on 19th October 2009.
Do not forget David, you did supply a nice piece to the Berwick Advertiser on 2nd November 2006 in which you are quoted as saying by the paper,
Borough Council Licensing Officer David Wilson said;
whilst I am aware of the concerns of the local taxi trade, I am suprised that members of the local taxi trade consider the licensing of taxis and drivers from outside the borough to be a threat to their businesses.
The people who are licensing themselves and their vehicles with the council have previously been working as private hire vehicles and drivers in the Tyneside Area, where I`m sure there are higher levels of earnings than there are in the Borough.
“They assure us they intend to continue to operate on Tyneside, and I can think of no good reason why they would choose not to do so.
Now David those are your words quoted in the Berwick Advertiser on 2nd November 2006, yet you have now set-up A2Z Licensing with the intention of now stating these applicants have set-up businesses within Northumberland, when you issued a statement in November 2006 to the Berwick Advertiser, and I can only assume you are nothing more than a camelion who will change his arguement to suit the situation and the person paying the piper, as it were.
I will continue to respect you David, but we have very different views on this subject matter I am afraid that means, we will never be of the same opinion, but an own goal has been scored on this occassion by you David.
Thanks
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls,
Dave,
Parliament makes law by Acts and Statutory Instruments and Orders; and the courts interpret the law.
Consequently, your assertion of your interpretation of what parliament intended in relation to legislation that has been long since repealed, does not overturn what the judge had to say in the Berwick case.
The judge confirmed a hackney carriage could be lawfully used by driver and proprietor anywhere in the country.
That must be correct, because otherwise there would have been no need to exempt “London cabs” from the definition of a private hire vehicle in the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, section 80, because that Act does not apply to London.
Despite the difficulties that a word like “remotely” creates, I actually think the judge was right, both in his decision and on the use of the word.
As local authorities are different in size and nature, as are their neighbouring authorities, it must be impossible to assert that more than x miles from a council boundary is remote, because that will not always be the case. If the judge had expressly indicated how far away from Berwick he thought might be remote, that might have been helpful, but without having a good knowledge of Berwick and the surrounding area, he really couldn’t be expected to do so.
To suggest that the whole of Northumberland, as far north as Berwick, is not remote from Newcastle or North Tyneside would, I think, be wrong. Even allowing for the fact that the distance between the boundaries of Newcastle and North Tyneside to the boundary of the former Borough of Berwick-upon-Tweed is probably about 30 miles away, that’s still a very long way away when Newcastle and North Tyneside are 33 and 44 square miles in area (I can’t recall for certain which is the largest).
However, as Northumberland covers an area in excess of 1,200 square miles, suggesting that the use of a Northumberland hackney carriage from a taxi office within 10 (or even only 5) miles of the Northumberland border doesn’t seem so far away, because of the size of the council area.
Maybe in the cases of Newcastle and North Tyneside, anywhere further away than a mile or two may rightly be classified as remote.
The problem with all this is that each and every council is going to have to decide for itself how far away is remote.
Only if a council’s decision is so irrational that no other council would ever come to the same conclusion will it be possible to successfully challenge such a decision by judicial review.
Regards,
David
PS: If you respect me, as you say you do, don’t try twisting the facts! The piece you quote from the Berwick Advertise of 2 November 2006 was correct – there had been only two or three non-UK applicants who had been licensed, who had no intention of using their hackney carriages in Berwick. As the total numbers of hackney carriages increased to about 750 over the next two years, my statement from late October 2006 cannot be regarded as applying equally to everyone who applied after that date.
PPS: I don’t know why you think I was formerly a police officer, because I was not. I was an Accredited Police Station Adviser and Duty Solicitor Representative for some of the largest and most respected criminal law firms in the region, so spent much time in police stations, but that’s not the same as being a police officer!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage TradeIan, I can testifiy after clearing in Gateshead a week on Friday ago I let myself be swallowed by work in the area.
My fate was sealed and I made a few quid. Punters know who is best.
I shop at Primark, they are clean, comfortable, reliable,open when I want to ge there and are available
on the main high street. Sounds like BLT? Yeh!!
I have mates who are NT hacks and Ncle hacks, the issues are:
1) there are TOOMANYBLACKCABS in Newcastle. If this is wrong why are they petitioning to increase the
number of bays?
2) They cost too much. Students chase the cheapest beers for the greatest effect.
So why should they adopt different principles to taxis.
3) What about having promotions for discounts on hacks to match our rates? Surely a little competition would be
welcome??
4) All of BLT’s bookings are from specific locations unlike rank work – Does the vast majority of work in Ncle
come from Ranks? What would u rather have – a walk to an expensive lift home or a cheaper pick up from the pub door?
There’s no chance of me paying £11.50 to Wallsend when BLT can do it for £7.00.
That’s 3 pints difference in the Buffs, effin rip off.
BLT offer wot people want, quick, reliable, relatively
cheap service. Call back, text alert, so you know who
is taking you home, not the cousin of the fella in the
photo (don’t tell me it doesn’t go on).
I know hacks have to wait longer for a job but does
that not justify that Ncle has TOOMANYHACKS.
Admin – should you not rename the site http://www.TOOMANYHACKS.com ?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@NT Badgeholder, You’re about 4 years behind the Hacks,your in the same business but theres no cap on your numbers,PH numbers are rising year on year.Just like the Hacks your work will get thinner and as it does so will your earnings.we’re all in it together mate and eventually we’ll all be stuffed. Havn’t you ever heard of Dublin?that’s what happened there. Ask Ian Shanks about that,ask him about his friends in Dublin,ask him what he learnt from Dublin.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Realist,
realist – the law prevents NT from capping
PH badges – that’s been the case for many years.
Pre-booked work won’t be affected by Hacks. As I
said, anyone wanting a taxi for example from their
house to Wallsend, Town Airport won’t phone a hack!
I still maintain the problem in Ncle is there are
toomanyhacks and people know the price is too high.
Supply and demand relies on a number of factors,
more so price, I should know, i studied marketng
for a while.
Why buy your milk at M&S when you can get it cheaper
at Aldi.
Sponsored by
http://www.aldi.co.uk
http://www.primark.com
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@NT Badgeholder, I’m not joking about the advertising mate! Please don’t do it!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Realist, Work is generally getting thinner and thinner for the hacks because of a number of reason’s but for example if fuel was 5p per litre cheaper in one petrol station than the next station, i would put my arse on the line a say the hacks will go to the cheaper station!
now thats simply what the public are choosing to do when they need transport. the hackney trade need to realise things are changing and should not just sit expecting work to come at them. The operators are out there aggressively attempting to get work, and i ask you whats wrong with that. If you are going to sit and sit and sit waiting and waiting and waiting then you will become like Panda’s.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,
rubbish, the public dont give a flying hoot what they get into on a friday night, there pi55ed up and if it cost to get home home what they have left in there pocket they couldnt care less.
and ian, the vast majority wont book a taxi home coz they DONT KNOW when they are going home themself, thats why its called a night out (a chance to wind down and let off steam) not a military operation.
and i would wager a lot who do book taxis dont tiurn up as they are just gonna carry on the night and hack it home!
IF the public wanted a cheap night, the last thing they would worry about would be the price of a hack when they are paying £5 a drink and £6.50 for crap in a pitta bread! and now sometimes a couple of quid to just get into a bar!
maybe you should just stop trying to convince us all that BLT is soo busy thats why they are parked up all over town, and not seeking a flimp! maybe you should concentrate on getting work in for all your drivers ian, and stop trying to plant a seed that the hack trade is a dinosaur/panada whatever you like!
but the reality is mate, it still has work to keep 780 cars on the road, BLT barely hasd the work for 400 from what i hear!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol, Andy, i am please to hear another hack driver who is not disillusioned with the work on the streets.
You should be promoting this more on this site and amongst drivers as so many come on here complaining.
now dont get yourself to concerned about me or blue line even after 50 years we will some how cope, and if we dont i always know i can return to being a hack driver.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@NT Badgeholder, You can get Channel Island full cream milk at M&S and a much wider choice of quality British home grown products. Or you can dumb down and go to the likes of Aldi and Primark and buy your cheap, poor quality imported junk from some of those sweat shops in Eastern Europe.
The same goes for the quality of the taxi drivers in our city. The customer might be sober enough to remember which private hire office they phoned but make no mistake about it this does not guarantee they know who’s taking them home.
In many instances they will be getting into a private hire car with a driver who has never had an enhanced CRB check done on him, a driver who has probably never sat a locality test and a driver who has a very poor command of English.
Perhaps you can tell me what part of this equation represents superiority over a properly licensed Newcastle or North Tyneside hackney carriage. It most certainly puts the public at risk and the private hire companies who employ these types of drivers are failing in their duty of care to their customers.
What is happening in this city and all of the major cities amounts to a nightmare for the security services in this country. Talks are currently underway with all the relevent bodies and as a consequence of this you can expect in the very near future we will likely see a marked increase in the random checking of taxis whereby enforcement will also be accompanied by police officers with TWO types of sniffer dogs.
Is the penny starting to drop?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Hackney Carriage Driver, So your saying the Hackney trade of Newcastle has no foriegn drivers and they all have a good command of English? Mmmmmmm
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@NT Badgeholder,
1) because there is only 71 rank spaces for 780 cars! so a city the size of newcastle should only have 71 hacks?!?! also were requested ranks in specific areas where certain PH firms seem to congregate a lot of the time!
2) so why do the STUDENTS buy pizza’s at £6 a pop when they can buy one from tesco (acorn road) for 99p!!! convenience, they dont want to go in and start cooking so would rather pay the 500 percent extra and get one from the city centre kebab shop! surely hacks arnt 500 percent extra than a BLT so why shun a hack thats a little extra (between four to seven people) to places like jesmond, £1.50 each or £1.00 each, hardly breaking the bank is it!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol,
3) promotions! why? thats not going to encourage our regulars to be very happy if we offer discounts to students! nah mate, i’m all in favour, and so are a LOT of the drivers, for NO rate increases for quiet some time. so as has been said, slowly pushing PH closer to the hack rate! hack drivers have this luxury with the fares, blt drivers dont.
4)sorry i have to quote this one a walk to “an expensive lift home or a cheaper pick up from the pub door?” well when blt got a call from the bee hive they were told to walk to pizza hut! which is closer then?
the reality is these pick up points are geared to distract, as when you say we will pick u up here or over there, you distract peoples attention as to why there are som many certain cars parked there at certain times.
take gateshead central for instance, the new heros kebab shop in the city centre, gateshead central have and continusly rank outside it of a wekend, sometimes up to 3 of there 8 seaters there at any one time! all waiting for bookings all the time, i doubt it!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@NT Badgeholder, A Hack is a Taxi mate. we didn’t issue all the Hacks but now they are here they require Ranks. While I’m on, everyone is welcome to comment and call each other names if they so wish! But we charge for advertising here so no more long drawn out Ads for Blt, Primark or any other large retailer Please.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Ian Shanks, work at Blue line is getting thinner too, not helped by the amount of cars you are taken on (by your own admission in the press over 100 in the past year! nice £10,000 extra a week)your own website is full of your drivers expressing how hard it is for them to make a living, but you don’t give a sh*t about how hard it is for the lads on the street all day and night, you just keep on taken on more cars!!
Now that you have made Blue Line a limited company i cant wait to see your books to see how greedy Blue Line is!
btw, I notice you haven’t backed up your claim of growth if year on year figures for the past few years? not as good as you are claiming are they?
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@mark,
while ian is in the mood to release figures perhaps he would like to tell us how many of his cars get ‘binned’ on a friday & saturday night!
binned is when the driver doesnt accept a job, yes the odd car will have a puncture, but you can (i believe) auto accept if youy are filling up or in a shop.
i would also like to know, how many cars log off at 11.00, 12.00, 01.00, 02.00, 03.00
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol, Andy your welcome to visit and see for yourself
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks, DO YOU KNOW WHOSE TAKING YOU HOME. Would anyone like a chocolate liquer? (Hic)
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@ian shanks,
well its not about the offer of a visit, but you were offering figures. i just wondered if you would like to supply these figures while you were at it.
but hey, thats ok if you dont wish to make these public for whatever reason.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
I take it none of you Lads have read Thursday’s Chronicle then?, page 9!
Anyway I am off now for a Quality Street and a Cuppa!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
I seem not to have the opportunity of replying to Dave Walls posting of “October 26th, 2009 at 9:53 am” (see somewhere above), so do so here.
I made a career choice – join the public sector as licensing transferred from the courts to councils or to stay in the private sector – and chose to join the public sector.
As in the private sector, there are some people in the public sector who appear to be grossly overpaid; and some who appear to be desperately underpaid in both sectors.
Public sector pay may be less (and was in my case), but the hours were shorter, the holidays longer and the pension better. Call it a lifestyle choice, if you like.
Frankly, however, my career and lifestyle choices seem to be completely irrelevant to the matters in hand.
If it was relevant (and it is not), I would ask why you no longer work as a bus driver!
As for Northumberland’s meeting on 19 October, of course I was there – I can hardly advise people about something I have no knowledge of. Similarly, that’s also a reason for attending North Tyneside’s Taxi Forum – to do my job, I need to know what’s going on.
There are some (and I accept only a few) drivers who genuinely predominantly work from within the Berwick zone, but also do work from Blue Line. The policy would, in any event, seem to allow these people to retain their Berwick plates.
There are a great many drivers who do much of their work in Northumberland, with none or very little in the Berwick zone. Some of them cannot get plates for the areas in which they live (Blyth and Wansbeck), because they are allegedly capped. As you fully appreciate, if the plates were Northumberland plates (the zones having been abolished), these people would genuinely be entitled to retain their Northumberland plates, because of the amount of work they do in Northumberland.
Whilst I think everyone, including those who are at risk of losing their plates and their livelihoods, would prefer certainty, I cannot say Northumberland’s decision was wrong. As far as I am aware, it was not suggested by anyone who responded to the consultation; and was solely a suggestion of the council that they should firstly consider their policy on zones and capping. Whatever they ultimately decide regarding zones and capping, it must be right that they decide those matters first, even if their decision is ultimately to leave things as they are, because those matters have never previously been considered by Northumberland County Council as it was not the licensing authority until 1 April 2009.
Whilst you are right that there were a number of Blue Line drivers present, I think you’d have to accept that there were people (drivers) present that were not obviously from Blue Line. Certainly representations were made by / on behalf of drivers from other offices in Newcastle and North Tyneside. This is not something that exclusively affects Blue Line drivers.
I suspect we both await sight of the Minutes of the Meeting of 19 October with interest, because the conduct of the mater certainly raised a few procedural issues! I’d also like to see the reasons for every aspect of every decision, because they seemed to be particularly conspicuous by their absence at the meeting!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
Morning David,
I am happy to state why I am no longer a Bus Driver, I entered the industry that my dad worked in from 1962 in 1987 at the age of 23, and by the time I was 25 I had listened for two years to the old hands version of what was going on in that industry, and so stood for election at the age of 25 as a Trade Union Shop Steward, who actually cared about the industry drivers and our working conditions.
For 5 years I worked hard redressing the 28 man, 32 man and the 36 man rotas along with the private lines for certain individuals that existed within the depot that carried a 10% sickness level of driver cover and a 10% holiday cover because we had 25 days paid holidays and the Bank Holidays each year.(normally an extra 8 days making 33 days or 6.5 weeks holidays a year)
Now in 1992, the company decided to force a paycut on the drivers, and then in 1994 they were looking for another saving on drivers wages with the incentive of “Whoopy” newer vehicles as part of the pay deal, but because I understood the strategic position of our powerful depot at Percy Main,(Depot still there by the way, but Wallsend Depot closed down, as it was to small and rented land) as it was the only depot “North of the Tyne” I knew the company was just playing mind games with the “Union Officials” and I said “if the vote is to accept the deal on offer that would see the depot stay open with slaves effectively then I was off”, I therefore put my own safety plan into place with a “Private Hire Licence” as a backup incase I lost the ballot, I therefore fought a campaign to call the managements and top union officials bluff, about a threat to close the depot, because I knew as a young man of 30, because of our strategic position the depot was never really on the cards to close dispite the company threats and the depot manager knew, I knew the truth, and was very worried about my convincing arguement to the drivers, the ballot result was 86 in favour and 83 against meaning by 3 votes the deal was accepted for newer buses, instead of a pay rise.
I left in December 1994, as I am a man of honor, who accepts the process of democracy, but you David said you worked as the Police Adviser and Duty Solicitor Representative to some of the largest criminal law Companies, now with that sort of powerful background I would have thought that one of these large Criminal Law Firms would have jumped at the chance to employ such an Ambassador as yourself in “Country Bumpkin Land” of Berwick-upon-Tweed. (sorry David, I do respect you, and am just giving this a little humour)
David let us check these drivers records as to how many hours at “Blueline” you say, and how many hours in Berwick-upon-Tweed as they cannot establish a business in Northumberland with the “Zones” that are in place today “any business in their own right” in any of the other “Zoned Areas”, as they are only Licensed by Berwick-upon-Tweed with Berwick Byelaws to comply with, that is how you establish a business in your own right within “Berwick-upon-Tweed, Plying for Hire from the Streets/Ranks” not bloody “Northumberland, and one other thing did any of your drivers sell their Blyth or Wansbeck Plate after getting a Berwick-upon-Tweed Hackney Licence Plate I wonder, as I know of at least one driver who did.(no names to be mentioned, as he is a nice lad and I have spoken to him in the past, but he may or may not be one of your drivers)
Hope you respect my views and comments, and I am sure the drivers reading this from the heart submission, on this site will see you and the respected Mr Fidler, for what your defences are based on, and me as an educated Transport Management Consultant.
Thanks
Dave Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls,
Dave,
486 words to tell me about your time in the bus industry, after I said it was irrelevant to the issue!
And only 152 words about the topic.
What is most important to you – you or the topic of discussion?
As for your 152 words on the topic of discussion, can you please clarify what point or points you are trying to make?
It appears that much of your argument revolves around the issue about where and how a hackney carriage may be hired and work, which we have dealt with before. I agree with the judge in the Berwick case; and you do not, because he’s only one person!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
David,
The topic of discussion is about what skeletons are there in your closet David, because before you can earn the right to redress a subject matter, one must look closely at the candidates, who are standing to defend a position, and I am currently charging nobody, just explaining to the readers my background unlike you who have set up A2Z Licensing to defend drivers who you as the “Licensing Officer for Berwick-upon-Tweed” created, and I am giving you the opportunity to explain away to all, your part in the process that you are making money out of with A2Z Licensing and your £2 a week charge.
The position you are defending is a one you respectfully created the “Berwick-upon-Tweed” problem drivers, you now defend.
The man who created it now defends a market place of drivers, that you created for yourself to defend.
Now to quote Section 72 of the Local Government(Miscellaneous Provision) Act 1976;
72(1) Where an offence by any person under this Part of this Act is due to the act or default of another person, then, whether proceedings are taken against the first-mentioned person or not, that other person may be charged with and convicted of the offence, and shall be liable on conviction to the same punishment as might have been imposed on the first-mentioned person if he had been convicted of the offence.
(2) Section 44(3) of this Act shall apply to an offence under this Part of this Act as it applies to an offence under Part I of this Act.
Section 44(3) states;
When an offence under this Part of this Act(including an offence under byelaws made by virtue of section 12 of this Act) which has been committed by a body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to any neglect on the part of, any director, manager, secretary or OTHER SIMILAR OFFICER of the body corporate or any person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.(This means you David Wilson as the Licensing Officer in Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Where the affairs of the body corporate are managed by its memebers the proceeding provisions of this subsection shall apply in relation to the acts and defaults of the member in connection with its functions of management as if he were a director of the body corporate.(this means the Councillors in Berwick-upon-Tweed, now Northumberland County Council)
Therefore David, with respect here, are you actually allowed to defend a situation you created, just a point of law, that may have been overlooked possibly?
Create your own market customer by creating the situation, is this lawful and legal, I wonder!!!!!
Over to you David.
Thanks
David Walls
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Walls,
Dave,
Be careful, and I mean be very, very careful, because very shortly you will find yourself defending a civil action for the downright falsehoods you allege against me on this site.
Admin might also wish to pay very careful attention, because a failure to take immediate action to remove defamatory remarks will bring him and this site into the action too.
You more than imply that I have committed a criminal offence or acted inappropriately, but as that is simply wrong, you quote extracts of legislation that amount to nothing, unless someone, somewhere has committed a criminal offence.
Not only has no-one done so, but for the third time recently, I re-assert the fact that the judge said no offence was committed by any driver or proprietor.
Now before replying publicly, think very carefully about what you are going to say and, if necessary, take some very specialised legal advice on defamation and slander, because whatever that might cost you, it will be money very well spent!
Might I also point out again that I did not create the concept of the out of town hackney – they have existed for decades, albeit on a smaller scale than that which developed in Berwick.
Berwick was nothing more than the “test case” in the High Court.
Again, contrary to your false assertions, I have not defended anyone in connection with the “Berwick situation”, because no-one has been accused of anything against which they might need defending!
To date, the drivers who have required my services the most for representation / defending before a committee have been those licensed by North Tyneside Council, followed by Stockton and Barnsley. I have not yet defended a single driver licensed by Northumberland.
Be warned, despite the fact that Admin previously observed, “It’s impossible to wind that kid [me] up”, there comes a point when I do get wound up; and you are dangerously close to completely overstepping the mark!
Before replying, make sure you have read this posting very, very carefully several times, because there will not be a further non-legal warning.
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade@David Wilson, well u should know by now that David walls always talks about him self in every reply he gives Davy we don’t need your CV every time u answer a question mate !!!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Willson “there are some (and I accept only a few)drivers how genuinely predominately work from within the Berwick zone, but also do work from Blue line”
bullsh*t, who drivers a 120 mile around trip to work the Blue Line system for a night? durring the week its not worth the fuel money for the amount of work and even on the weekends nights its not cost effective i.e.
an optimistic Friday & Saturday 10 shift
£400 gross income = £60-£80 in fuel + £30-40 in fuel to get in to Blue lines area + £100 office rent to Blue Line (blue line wont to weekend rates)= £190-£220 costs
£400 gross income
£190-£220 cost
£180-£210 before you take off insurance,tax,plate,maintenance, income tax etc
and that’s on a good weekend, you only have to read blue lines website to know they are few and far between
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@mark,
Mark, when you don’t know the facts, it’s sometimes wisest to say nothing!
The fact is there are drivers who spend most of the year at their caravans in the Berwick zone and work in the Berwick zone when they are there, but also work from Blue Line at weekends and / or at those times of the year when they can’t occupy their caravans.
Fact!
Whether you think its financially prudent for them to do so is a matter of opinion – they choose to do so and are entitled to do so!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
bit harsh that david, i think you should apologise to this man, he addmittedly is a BLT driver and because of a decision you made, he is struggling. it was not just the hack trade that was effected by this bad error of judgement!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
david please let me get this right, you are sayiing that the vast majority of these berwick plated blt drivers live in a caravan in berwick!
do you know how absurd that is!
how many berwick plated cars are left at blt, or how many were there! i’m sorry david i’m struggling to typ here for crying with laughter, you cannot [possibly expect us to believe this! come on, how BIG is berwick caravan park!
maybe ian should drop his bit a little eh!
hold on david, actually yes you are right, i do recall last sunday morning, around 4.00 am, i was heading southbound on the A1, when i heard a deathly roar, then a blindly bright light comming the opposite way, at first i thought it was aliens! but now i relise it was a convoy of blt’s heading ‘home’ to berwick caravan park! ohh and there were followed by some bloke in a mondeo estate with nee lights on and repeatedly swearving side to side???
i think, here ladies and gentlemen, we have just seen which hand the berwick saga will play next to exploit more ‘loopholes’!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@Andy Warhol,
Andy,
I repeat what I originally said: “There are some (and I accept only a few) drivers who genuinely predominantly work from within the Berwick zone, but also do work from Blue Line. The policy would, in any event, seem to allow these people to retain their Berwick plates.”
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage Trade
@David Wilson,
so at point does a berwick plated vehicle at blt’s decide to go and sit on a rank in berwick? weekend nights? surely not, with yours and ians admission that blt lose a shed load there wheels should never stop. through the week? surely if blt is busyier than berwick on a weekend, then the same should apply through the week, should it not?
so your also saying that if a driver is working blt’s for 6 days at 10 hour shifts, he may still be working berwick aswell? maybe the taxman would be more ineteresteed in your claims than us!
The views expressed in this site do not necessarily reflect the views of TooManyTaxis or the general U.K. Hackney Carriage TradeWell, Well!
The “three Amigo’s” are still coming on here, when two are more interested in what’s going on the in the Midlands, opposed to the MESS in the North East and the third Amigo needs HELP!!
The Amigo’s!, Wilson, Fiddler and Mr Walls!
Who cares about Wolverhampton??, apart from the fact there Football Club replaced our Club in the Premiership!
Who cares about “Cages” in Cars, unless someone is kindly going to stick these three in one.
I really dispair with you three, Champions of the Trade you claim???, one of you was stuffing Taxi Plates and Badges into Envelopes last year and posting them out to anyone who made through the Channel Tunnel, Mr Fiddler, I am sure as a North Shields resident you could attend a over 50′s course at the Linkskill Centre, like Flower arranging, Cookery etc, rather than hanging around with Mr Wilson, OR take on Mr wilson for the mess he has caused!!!!
Mr Walls, this site is not a Curriculum Vitae (CV), and please choose a side, you appear to be getting at the two other Amigo’s, however two weeks ago you attending this so called NT Forum holding hands with them???
Anyway as the festive season is fast approaching, I thought that you three Chaps could do a Panto for the Kids of NORTH TYNESIDE, not Berwick or Wolver..Bloody..Hampton, but I thought again!, Mr Walls as the Dame???, Alan and David as the ugly Sisters???…….NO!, we would end up bombarded with Acts and old Court cases on here related to performing Arts!!!
So as Mr Walls is so obsessed with Buses, we could have a Stage play of the hit TV Comedy “On the Buses”, Dave could be Butler and David could be “Blakey”, and Alan could dress up as Olive!!
I am sure Whitley Bay Playhouse would welome you with open Arms, mind you Wallsend based Drivers who watch the show, Popcorn only in the Theatre, NO Chocolates!!
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@Stephen Arthur,
Hello Stephen,
I like your idea, but I did post a response at around 1330ish today, but it appears to have gone missing and I have emailed Admin to ask them to find it and post it.
Stephen, going to let you in on a little secret here, when you want to address a point, sometimes you need to go around the houses, as this gets the recipient of the message to talk a little about the situation, and then finally when they have shot themselves in the foot, then you expose them for what they have confirmed with there own quotes.
Its called playing dumb, but David has revealled his true colours, and its a little like a “Little Britain” sketch, you know the one about “Little Dennis Waterman” he who writes the theme toon, sings the theme toon, performs the theme toon and acts in his own production. PMSL
In this case thought, he issues the “Berwick Licence” confirmed by him on 2nd November 2006, then is released by Berwick Council under “Restructuring” in April 2009, so sets up “A2Z Licensing” to protect the Berwick Licences that he was party to releasing, and he charges £2 a week for his services to the recipients.
What a guy, a star for the future, in your version of “On the Buses” and your right “Butler” always won his disputes with “Blakey” PMSL
Thanks
Dave Walls
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@David Walls,
am i also getting this right, he bombarded the NE with berwick plated vehicles, then claims that he stopped wolverhampton issuing any more licences!
and he then expects us all to be gratefull a man who has helped towards each and every taxi driver having an earlyier recession in the ne than anywhere else! and wants us all to subscribe to his ‘excellent’ service!
also all this you can keep your berick plated vehicle so long as you live in a caravan in berwick smacks of trying to keep one foot in the door! if i were at licencing all those who claim this is the case would get a visit from the revenue, and dss, and i’m sure boys, all those who claim to be living up there will soon be spotted parked up night after night on an estate near you! then i guess there plates will be named and shamed on here!
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@Stephen Arthur,
The initial postings in relation to Wolverhampton and Coventry were not initiated by me or David Wilson.
I presume ADMIN has a monitoring service to pick up on ‘possibly related items’
By chance David and I had been advising Wolverhampton HCDA on the matter reported. I only butted in to clarify the actual result. In addition I have acted/ am acting for associaitons and operators on a number of issues in South Staffs, Wolverhampton, Dudley (the West Midlands one), Coventry, Rugby and Crewe (to name but a few).
Unfortunately, I’m unavailable for the Panto season on Tyneside this year owing to major commitments at the pantomimes going on across the country in many other councils, as well as here in North Tyneside.
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Oh no it isn’t.
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@Ollie Beak,
Oh yes it is!
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@David Wilson, Oh no it isn’t.
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The Berwick Live Theatre (BLT) is proud to present this years Christmas production of “Dave’s in the Wood”. There has been no expense spared on this pantomime which will take place from the new venue under the marquee at Berwick Caravan Park.
This year we are offering a ten per cent reduction for taxi drivers as we have been told that there is one living here somewhere. We are offering a prize to the first child who manages to find this taxi driver and we are leaving tell-tale clues about which caravan he might be in. These will be in the form of chocolate liqueur wrappers and old police identikit pictures.
We are, at this time, recruiting for this production and we are looking for a suitable ham actor to play the part of ‘Dave’. Applications as usual are by post only and the successful candidate must also be prepared to sell ice cream during the interval. (They will also be required to wear white socks and lederhosen but that’s just for my enjoyment).
We look forward to seeing you all on the night.
PS. The children’s prize for finding that elusive taxi driver will be the worlds first green square frisbee.
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One of the best comments yet!! (Berwick Live Theatre)
But, I hear there is some productions in the pipeline at your Theatre!
“David & Goliath” for the Spring, a stage play where David goes to work for Goliath and they live happily ever after.
“Men in Black”, for the summer season (sorry Girls, no Will Smith in this one), this is a stage play based on a true story of Newcastle Hack Drivers battling against Aliens who are launching attacks on Newcastle’s famous Bigg Market from there crash landing site at Berwick Caravan Park!
“Fiddler on the Roof”, A musical set in the first floor of a Taxi office in Whitley Bay, starring Alan Fiddler and music from Dave Walls- “the Wheels on the Blue Bus go round and round”
Can’t wait to see them!
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Well it looks like the METROCNETRE have finally given in and let a taxi firm represent them ,as from the 2nd of november DEAN TAXIS of gateahead will have designated parking spaces in all quadrants and the bus station and there will be extra free phones on all customer service desks and in some stores direct to DEAN TAXIS.so in affect it looks like they have got what has taken them a long time to achive .an we hope it brings in extra work for us drivers .
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@Dean driver, Extra work for the drivers will probably mean higher office rents, somebody has to pay for all those free phones.
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@Private hire driver NCLE, valid point there ,we have all been thinking the same thing .
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The Berwick Live Theatre (BLT) would like to announce that the auditions for the pantomime “Dave’s in the Wood” have now closed. Yes after much deliberation from over five hundred hopefuls we have finally found a fit and proper ‘Dave’.
Of course we needed to test our budding thespian so we gave him a short sketch to perform in order to demonstrate his ham acting ability. We asked him to act the part of a solicitor’s tea boy and he was a natural at his first attempt, in fact we felt he took to the part like a monkey to PG Tips.
It wasn’t all plain sailing though because our ‘Dave’ informed us that he needed to keep his true identity a secret because hundreds of taxi drivers from both North Tyneside and Newcastle were very keen to remove his testicles followed by his head.
We told him not to worry about this because we had found a loophole and it was very simple we would simply give him a stage name. It was mutually agreed between the Live Theatre and our ‘Dave’ that his stage name would be Richard Head.
I wish I could tell everyone how marvellous he looks in white socks and lederhosen although I am reliably informed that there are one or two operators out there who already know this. We expect a good turn out on the night for what should be a memorable performance.
Sadly the taxis we hoped to have laid on for the guests have not replied to our phone calls. At the last minute we received an anonymous email stating that there are very few taxis working in Berwick because the vast majority are all making a killing stealing the Hackney Carriage work in Newcastle!
Trick or Treat children.
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Hey!
Never mind your Theatre, what about a “Carry on Camping 2”, set in Berwick Caravan Park!
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A couple of Songs for your performance; “Caravan of love” by the Housemartins and “Living in a Box” by Living in a Box!
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You mean ‘Carry On Flimping’ don’t you. New council – same shi*e.
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E.Coast comunity Theatre would like to thank the five Taxi Drivers and one Ex Licensing who helped the Theatre with this years Nativity Play.
We cast the three wise men without a problem, one of them who works at a Wallsend Taxi Office asked for a small fee, the second said he would fit it in with his other commitments, the third said he would rather be the the “Lighthouse” to guide the three Ships that come sailing in on Christmas day on Christmas day!, we kindly informed the third wise Man that we did’nt need a Lighthouse because we were not using three Ships due to Health and Safety, as we opted for three Berwick Licensed Estate Cars instead using their Sat Navs to guide them in, who said they would do the Play for a Box of Chocolate Liqueurs each and some Petrol money back to Berwick Caravan Park.
The third wise Man a Public Transport Guru (Buses) and part-time Taxi Driver eventually agreed to his role.
We still need the virgin Mary and baby Jesus, saying that I have been looking for a Virgin for 21 years with no luck!!!!
Anyway Chaps thanks once again, and to all Berwick Drivers who watch the Play, please be sober as this is a religious Play and Drunks will not be tolerated in the Theatre.
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Any one know of any offices that do a part time rent? There has been some talk of it at the office I work at.
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@john smith, Graham at central,north shields charges less rent if yur a hack.so maybe he would do the same for a ph who only wanted to work days.
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Silent night holy night advert for Blueline is good,but very hypocritical.Pass this message on to your drivers as well, and tell them to leave their car at home,if they are going to stuff there faces with choc liquers.
Choc liquers yeah right.
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@bozo,
Laughed my head off too “CALL BLUELINE ON 262DOUBLE VODKA DOUBLE VODKA HIC HIC ”
I have never noticed on this advert but the old one used to say “call Newcastle on ….” i might be mistaken but Blueline is in Wallsend and Wallsend is in North Tyneside ……….Hmmmm .
Just an observation
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@Am133, Do you know who’s taking you home tonight? If not just read the Chronicle every other night or catch up with Crimewatch.
(Hic)
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Well we all know that Blueline just make upo what they want, facts don’t really come into it, neither does quality or passenger safety, or vehicle upkeep, or……. i could be here all day!
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Greetings one’s loyal subjects,
One is up for the hols to see Eugenie and one got one of those pre-booked chappies to take one to her des res. One didn’t want to appear pompous but one said to him do you know who you’re taking home tonight? and one had to ask him twice because he was fiddling on with one of those navigation thingy’s.
Anyway, one noticed that he still had his pj’s on and one said to him have you slept in or something and he replied no Mam I always dress like this. So one told him well if it was good enough for the Romans it’s good enough for you chaps. Good job Philip wasn’t with me he might have put his foot in it like that Salmon Rusty fellow.
We got chatting about this and that and all was going well until one asked him how much the fare was and one almost had corgis’. One said HOW MUCH just to Claremont Road you robbing bas***d so one kneed him in the crown jewels, lifted up one’s skirt and legged it.
The moral of this story is we should have given Berwick-upon-Tweed back to the Scots.
See you all on Christmas day,
Your Queen.
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@Jabber The Hut, I can promise you it was not david wilson but they are my words and thoughts !! anyway i, unlike some others adapt!
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@Jabber The Hut, PS while i dont do jioned up writing and may struggle with double bow’s i have done ok for myself and others. Hope you can say the same.
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@davey, correct me if i am wrong but is it not true that the drivers are in the proccess of buying dean taxis ? also could anyone from blueline confirm or deny the rumours about oppening an office in gateshead (i may ask for a radio) .
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@David Walls, David, i would be happy to reply but i dont get what your on about here!
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@ian shanks,
I’m sure you will ian, but arnt you little too old for the hack trade now? If things do go pear shaped perhaps with your knowledge you would be better off with a desk clerks job at another office.
and if it does get that back in the city, you might even see me at BLT!
while i dont agree on much you say, i know what you have to do, is look out for BLT and make it grow. thats your business of course, and even as a hack driver i have to respect that, not like it, but respect it.
good luck for the future ian, bbut not at any of the hack trades expense.
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@ian shanks, It would be more appropriate if you had the QIRBP.
Qualification In Removing Berwick Plates.
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@ian shanks,
Ian,
I have always had respect for your achievements in business, and will continue to do so for as long as you trade in the “spirit of the law”, and that is with North Tyneside Hackney Carriage Vehicles and Drivers and Private Hire Vehicles and Drivers within North Tyneside, as your Operator Licence allows.
Not “Out of Town” Licensed Hackney Carriage Vehicles and Drivers under a North Tyneside Operator Licence.
But Ian, you have stated QIRB stands for “Qualification in Running a Business” alass you forgot to say who accredited the Certificates.
Mine were awarded by the Oxford and Cambridge Results Board who recognised the Qualification for Road Passenger Transport Management, and that means “Hire or Reward” with Hail and Ride Known as “Plying for Hire from a Rank within your Licensing Authority” and relevant to Hackney Carriage “Bus or Taxi” or Private Hire “Pre-Booked in Advance Bus or Coaches” that can include a vehicle with less than 8 seats and that is a “Private Hire Vehicle” as the law stands, is it not?
Now Ian, please do not throw your dummy out of the pram and at least respect my qualifications, as the true Qualifications for both our Industries, and respect me, as I respect you, after all I to have worked in Transport for 22 years in both under 8 passenger and over 8 passenger vehicles, meaning I have many years experience, as a Designer of Transport Infra-Structure at Go-Ahead, as the elected Trade Union Shop-Steward for 5 years looking after the working conditions of around 135 drivers at Percy Main on the services they Operated within North Tyneside.
Thanks
Dave Walls
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@David Wilson, There are a lot of people in the North Tyneside and Newcastle hackney carriage trade who would like you to spend time in a police station again (getting photographed and fingerprinted).
Maybe you’ll put a foot wrong and that will happen, you know how it pans out: if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
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@David Wilson,
David,
I will prove I respect you by making an apology to you personally for being mis-informed about you spending so much time at the Police Station, because you appear to have explained why that was so.
Therefore one has to ask why would someone working in the private sector, who normally pay more than the public sector, would leave such a post to be a public sector worker, when strangely the public sector workers keep saying how crap their pay is compared to the private sector.
The fact you cannot hide from is though as you know, I was at County Hall, Morpeth on 19th October 2009, when yourself and the Blueline possy were present who have Berwick Plate Vehicles(can mention Blueline on this occassion, as they all seemed to be in a an item from the Blueline Clothing Range)around 12 of the drivers, yourself and some old guy in a Black Suit looking like he was visiting an old friend who could possibly if the decision of the Councillors was to adopt the Hackney Carriage Policy for Northumberland with the keeping of the Zoned Area would have been seen as the wake, and so showing respect for a lost friend, the Berwick Hackney Carriage Licence Plate.
Now David, as we both know Northumberland, and I have to say how dis-appointed I was not to see a Newcastle or North Tyneside Council Officers in attendance for such an important meeting, they would have witnessed a very oneside presentation by Mr Soderquest who seemed this time to not state that Newcastle Council were more likely to take Northumberland County Council back to Court than some driver who alledgedly were claiming they had set-up a Hackney Carriage business with “Predominantly” work based in Northumberland with their Berwick-upon-Tweed Hackney Carriage Licence, when possibly not one of them live in Berwick or can comply with the Berwick-upon-Tweed BYELAWS that still exist meaning you must when empty move to an RANK SPACE within Berwick to use your Licence to “Predominately Ply for Hire” within Berwick currently, this point seemed to not get a mention on the day.
The decision on the day was to “Provisionally Adopt” when the Zoned Area situation is reviewed because the poor Councillors are more worried about some guy in a Berwick Hackney Carriage making representations that they will be put out of business today, and in a few months time if the Zones are removed then there is a chance they could have kept the business going, but quite how a business could have been established by a Berwick Hackney Carriage that does not work “Predominantly in Berwick over the last 3 years can have any rights is beyond me,when they have been working “Private Hire” in North Tyneside or Newcastle, as is the fact that Mr Soderquest forgot to keep empathising Newcastle Council were more likely to take Northumberland back to Court over the issue than the driver who kept getting loads of mentions.
As I say you had to be there to see it for yourself and if Newcastle Council want to call me to give evidence in any pending Court Action I will be willing to testify what took place, but I think a deal will be done between the two Councils before that was to happen hopefully.
Now over to you David.
Thanks
Dave Walls
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@David Wilson, Here I go again, Two apologies in one week. Sorry David! I have removed the offending comment as a courtesy to you. Just know this! I care not a bit about being drawn into any legal action that you or anybody else may throw at me. That being said I have no personal wish to be defamatory about your good self and will keep a close eye on the Comments from this time on.
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@David Wilson, Does that mean we’re not going to have a pantomime now?
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@David Wilson,
“Be Warned! Be careful, and I mean be very, very careful, because very shortly you will find yourself defending a civil action” “Admin might also wish to pay very careful attention, because a failure to take immediate action to remove defamatory remarks will bring him and this site into the action too.”
These comments really do confirm what a **** you indeed are. And you have the gaul to try and advertise yourself as the taxi drivers ally and friend? Good god, you will be a bundle of laughs around the negotiating table at NTC. Mr Walls, Admin, carry on with the site and good work. But please get this **** off, because he has already shafted us once, then comes back trying to charge us for the privelege. You couldn’t make it up!
Following the Ginger one in your court threats against Mr Walls? Well just go for it. The Ginger one (balls and all) didn’t have the balls to do it!
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@Ollie Beak,
Ollie Beak,
No, I think the pantomime is taking place at this very time, on this very site; don’t you?
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@Admin,
Admin,
I was in the process of emailing you, but you were too quick, for which I thank you.
I was then going to email you to ask that you remove both my reply to the offending message and your apology, but others have already seen them, as evidenced by Ollie Beak’s comment, so please leave them.
Dave Walls, if you too feel obliged to apologise, which would be a good idea, please remember not to repeat your offending comments, because Admin does not want to have to make a third apology in a week!
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@marymaryquitecontrary,
I have no knowledge of any other court threats against Mr Walls or anyone else.
Serious allegations were made, without foundation, to which I took exception, which I don’t think unreasonable.
If you were publicly falsely accused of something, you’d presumably have something to say about it, and would say so.
Unless you saw what was said (and I’m not going to repeat that against myself), you really don’t know whether my reaction is as unreasonable as you seem to think it was (or as reasonable as I think it was).
Despite that spat with Dave Walls, I’ll still be able to sit around the table with him and anyone / everyone else and rationally discuss the issues up for debate. I suspect Dave will be able to do likewise.
Ultimately, the big issue is about the taxi trade and, as I’ve repeatedly said on this site, I mean both sectors working together for the good of the whole trade and the public they serve; and not about the individuals (including the recently named “Three Amigos” of myself, Dave Walls and Alan Fidler).
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