All North Tyneside Drivers & Operators should be sent one of these in the next few days. Whether you are Pro ’Out of Town Hackneys’ or you would like to see the back of them, it is important that this should not be ignored,binned or otherwise disposed of. READ ON:
Consultation: Proposals to amend Standard Conditions of Licence for
Private Hire Operators
North Tyneside Council is seeking your views on proposals to amend its
standard conditions of licence for private hire operators.
Background Information
The High Court Ruling in the case of Newcastle City Council v Berwick upon
Tweed Borough Council in November 2008 concerned a challenge to the
practice of issuing hackney carriage licences for vehicles which were
predominantly working remotely from the area by undertaking work via private
hire operators licensed by other local authorities. The judgment emphasised
the local character of the private hire and hackney carriage licensing regime
and the local authority’s discretion to restrict non-local use of a licensed
vehicle to ensure it maintains control over those it has licensed.
Reasons for the Proposals:
Changes to the standard conditions attached to private hire operators are
being considered with a view to ensuring that private hire operators licensed
by this Council use only vehicles and drivers licensed by this Council (and
therefore subject to the same local controls) to fulfill bookings.
The proposals are aimed at enabling the Council to maintain local control of
licensing and effectively carry out it’s enforcement duties in order to protect
the traveling public.
The Proposed Conditions
The proposed conditions are as follows:
1. Any hackney carriage used to undertake a private hire booking under
this operator’s licence must be one that is licensed by this authority
pursuant to section 37 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847
2. Any hackney carriage used to undertake a private hire booking under
this operator’s licence must be driven by a person holding a licence
issued by this authority pursuant to section 46 of the Town Police
Clauses Act 1847
3. The records required to be kept by the operator under section 56(2) of
the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 must be
kept in a suitable book, the pages of which are numbered
consecutively, or other durable recording format and the operator shall
enter or cause to be entered therein before the commencement of
each journey, the following particulars of every booking of a private hire
vehicle invited or accepted by him, including where a booking is subcontracted
(whether the vehicle that is used is licensed under section 48 of the 1976 Act, or is licensed as a hackney carriage under section
37 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847):
a) The time and date of the hiring
b) The name of the hirer
c) The agreed time of the pick-up
d) The point of pick-up
e) The destination
f) The proprietor, registration number, licence number and call
sign of the vehicle allocated for the booking
g) The name and licence number of the driver
h) Remarks (including details of any sub-contract)
4. The operator shall also keep records of the particulars of all vehicles
operated or used by him (whether licensed under section 48 of the
Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 or under
section 37 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, which particulars shall
include details of the proprietors, registration numbers, licence number
and drivers of such vehicles, together with any radio call sign used.
5. The operator shall keep records of all desk clerks employed by him,
including their name, date of birth and home address. A daily record
must be kept of the time worked by each clerk.
All other current conditions will remain unchanged.
Purpose of the Consultation
The Council is undertaking consultation with interested parties while the
proposals are at a formative stage. Responses to the consultation will be
considered prior to proposals being finalised and placed before elected
members for determination.
Please use the attached comment sheet so that your views can be
considered. Please return this form by 10am Monday 26 July 2010.
North Tyneside HACKNEY CARRIAGE AND PRIVATE HIRE LICENSING POLICY
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{ 67 comments… read them below or add one }
Hope it all works out in favour of nt council
Good to see lots of views on this post. If you’ve had yours through the post get it filled in and returned to taxi Licensing.If you don’t get one download it http://toomanytaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/NTC_PSCM.PSCM_Web.download.pdf
The council is going against the high court decision made in 2003 where they lost!
They cannot go against the law so what they are doing is unenforceable.
They are also spending time and money on a consultation when they fully know that there is another high court case this coming Thursday about exactly the same thing. So they need to sit back and see which way the court decides on Thursday.
But councils being councils they know best and do what they want in the hope and knowledge no one will argue with them. ! Sadly we are
This is a quote by a large nt ph proprietor on a drivers forum
@blueline driver, Newcastle has done this and shanks has peddled off into the sunset when they put in their policy ‘no out of town hacks’ the case on thursday is the stockton case and it’s a knockin bet that stockton will win!
The Tide is Turning
@blueline driver, of course Shanksy is going to contest it, he has sh*t loads to loose, I only hope NT win and he can fell out its like to take a drop in income, like he’s forced on everyone else!
Dave Walls AKA sosages is workin for a PH firm on LOW RATES the man who has constantly spouted about fare increases for the hacks… was there method in his maddness now coining it in at a LOW RATE Office!!!!!!
@Json, yeah I seen him today at holystone with Black n White stickers on . he’ll be hotfootin it to Berwick Next
Anyone herd the outcome of the recent court case ?
Any news on the recent court case ?
@blueline driver, If you mean the Stockton case, I think we will be unlikely to hear anything before the end of August. If we hear anything sooner we will post it here.
sorry admin if i get this in the wrong place, the site has changed since last time i was here. anyways,
ham shank, the ginger muppet and brain dead bundy are the main cause of all the aggravation, they are driven by greed and stupidity, its time the drivers wised up…
@jumpinjack: well said jack, the price of fuel is going to go up soon to as much as £1.30 for a litre, will the office owners put their fares up ? will they reduce their rents ? or do we mugs just carry on as we are, making money for them. for anyone with a nintendo.. here is a quick maths lesson:-
100 cars.. £100 rent… = £10,000 per week
1 driver… high fuel.. long hours.. £400 per week
ok.. lesson over…. work it out yourselves.
@ex-central-driver: Try 250 cars….£108 each….£27,000 per week and thats not to mention the cars rented at £285 per week. Out of town plates bein took on week after week, No fare increases for almost three years but fuel keeps goin up,insurance keeps goin up, repairs and now the council wants to raise the fees….Why do we do it? Then we get grief off the punters to boot!
yes lads,the taxi business has now become a mugs game.. i have been in it now for nearly 20 years and i dont know how there is still so many taxis on the road. iknow the economics of this business inside out and the quantity of work per car per week cant possibly sustain a decent living for everyone considering the crippling overheads.so there ask yourself why they are still out there … better than dole.. thats all i can think.. still we soldier on.
@current central driver: well if everyone ran on hack rates and no daft set fares to a/p and toon then ppl would use u for your service and not because you are cheap then everyone could make a half decent living/ most areas run p-hire on hack rates don’t see why we can not ?? ppl would still use you as they would know what the fare would be if everyone charged the same rate
@ex-central-driver: thats 2 of us “wised up”, only another 1,000 or so to go
what the problem lies with is that you have people missusing an office to olny just go round the corner and the meter only showing £1.30. You wouldnt see addison lee driving around london starting on 90p. an office is designed for safety and peace of mind, not cheap rates
@David: David , while Tesco’s and all other shops allow you to walk in and buy a 50p packet o chewing gum even though the have a huge store operating, are ou saying they should only let you in if you have a minimum spend of say £20 ?
are you also say a disable or elderly person should bee take a mile or so up the road and then back just to run the clock up a bit befor going to their local corner store ?
come on, you have to look at the bigger picture and not just the ODD little job !
and if you not making money where you are move to where they are ! good luck
@ian shanks, I think you misunderstood Davids point. It’s not the short trips , we all have to do them, it’s the cheaper than bus fare rates. Anyway I can’t see why you put your two pennorth in as your firm has a two pound minimum fare.. Doesn’t it?
@ian shanks: like steven says u have a £2 min even if its says £1.40 on the meter y cant u just start your meter on £2 if that’s the min fare is just to make u look cheap ??? also u charge extra don’t u if u have a disabled person on a wheel chair vehicle ???
@ian shanks: how would you like it ian if you were in forest hall and you were called to shields and you were asked just to go down to the ferry and yet you spent all that fuel on picking them up. hello it is not the days of the 1980s when it only used to cost 2.50 for 20 tabs and a quid to go to newcastle on the bus
noda is an office and they use hack rates. as i said, an office is the there for peace of mind and safety, not cheap rates
@David: actully noda just opened another office on budget fares!
@Steven: Sorry chaps i must be missing the piont here ! Are you saying we should all be chargng hire rates ? if so do you really think the custom will still us the taxi/PHV as the prefered option ?
or is it about short journeys and being sent along way to cover them ? this i understand is not economical and is to be avioded where possible. al offices are trying harder to reduce a drivers dead milage were they can but its not always achieveable. some offices turn this work away totally, and others have enough coverage where they may be able to give the driver follow on work when doing such jobs.
again i not sure i am getting the piont with being away from the site for some time. but i dont agree with high fares is being the answer in the market we compete in.
offices say that they are cheap but not all the meters are accurate and you can get charged higher for the same journey
@ian shanks: the point (not piont) is if every office charged the council approved rate then we could all make a 1/2 decent living then ppl would use u for your service not because u r cheap it works in most parts of the county ph run on hack rates without a problem /ppl would still use u as they know what the fare would be whether they used a hack or private hire the choice would be theirs
@another north tyneside hack driver: I beleive we can only charge what the market commands, Blue Line does not set its rates to compete against the hackney trade but des try and keep it the affordable option to public transport when travelling in numbers.
If you belive we should all charge “top doller” and hope for the best, in that you believe the public will still use taxis, i must be prepared to say i would not take that chance.
If your fares were cheaper than they are and you found yourself making more money than you are on higher fares would you not choose that option ?
@ian shanks: I have to agree with the sentiment ‘charge what the market commands’ or what the market can bear. In the last two years I have opposed fare increases for North Tyneside Hackney Carriages, the last time with a sizeable petition from individual drivers. It was even pointed out that ‘whilst in recession it was arguably not in the best interests of the trade or the public for us to increase our fares,particularly as none of the other modes of public transport had rises in fares’ The Council still awarded an increase in fares,albeit a small one. I would say that this year has been one of the toughest I have ever worked on the streets and I know it has been tough for Private Hire aswell but to keep having fare increases whilst in this climate has a negative effect. When the difference is only coppers we still get work but as the gap increases we lose more and more every week, when drivers don’t get enough work they start to add extras to the work they do get – potentially losing more trade. It might be hard to stomach but the only way to put Hackney Carriages back to where they were is to freeze fares. There are more than enough PH these days to cover the work that we used to do and we have to recognise this and begin to be competitive. Most HC’s (on North Tyneside anyway) work from offices so they cannot say that they are averse to charging lower fares. It’s pure madness to keep raising rates and at this rate we are driving ourselves into a form of a one tier system, a system where every Taxi/Private hire will be working from an office within a few short years. Any Hack that’s been around for more than fifteen years know’s the truth of this even if they don’t admit it to themselves. David Walls for one, would argue this point with me but he himself has been seen working from a PH office in recent months. We have to do something as Tax Credits won’t be around forever and that’s what most of us are living off. Think about it!
foxhunters use quite sensible rates to benefit the drivers and the passengers. they make it so it is not cheap and not too expensive
some operators only charge 2.80 from waterville road to tescos. foxhunters charge 3.30 which is quite reasonable. preston start on 90p put go up very fast
@david: Preston is now part of the Blue Line Group, soon everybody will be!
@Admin: I think you had a idea about this. BLT has bought Preston Taxis and is committed to having a 1000 cars by christmas. Either you new about this or you have good insite!!!!
is blueline also trying for battle hill
@David: Why don’t you ask omeone who may know ?
@ian shanks: why di you want all these firms ian. the more divers you have ian, the more you are going to make the drivers suffer because it will come to a stage where you wont have enough work to cover all drivers
@ian shanks: why are you having all these berwick cars. it is absolutely annoying. you have to be drivers sitting down and revsing the night before the test yet these berwick drivers come in and steal the work out there. we are even having plates coming in as far field as durham. why dont you learn the berwick drivers north tyneside and get them on north tyneside plates
@David: that’s not necessarily true, but you do have to have the work for the drivers, on that I agree, but the work comes with the office and drivers. it our intention by having better coverage we can respond quick and give drivers less dead miles between jobs.
we also have a huge amount of lost business through lack of vehicles at times (which can be proven if you wish to witness).
anyway I am attempting to make our taxi company’s more efficient therefore in the hope drivers benefit not lose out , as that does not make sense
@David: as i have siad once or twice before most of our berwick drivers hold license in North Tyneside or Newcastle!
And what is the piont of revising North Tyneside when the bulk of our work is within the City eg from walkerville up through town etc
many cars never see North Tyneside
As a North Tyneside driver are you qualified to drive around town and gateshead or anywhere else outside of North Tyneside as you have not revised those areas ?
@ian shanks: having 1000 drivers would actually work if done carefully. within this i would like to report an incident that happened back in june. what happened was i pre booked a taxi from meadowell to southlands on beach road for 630pm on the 10th june. it came to 630 and got the text back. i went outside to have a look and there was no car there. i thought to my self alright it will be on its way. i waited another 10 minutes and then i phoned the office. they said my taxi was on its way. 5 minutes later. i rang again almost 645pm and they said that it was there and i turned around and asked it to be checked. Then you never guess what came back through, that the car went to southlands instead of meadowell. i was going to be late for the youth club. i was so annoyed i gave the phone to my mam. when my mam was on the phone, i was geting worked up in my self and started swearing out of anger at my self but not meant at the operator. the operator then threatened to my mam that she would blacklist the house if i didnt calm down. its not like i was gonna get in the taxi and go in a fit with the driver cos it wasnt the drivers fault and i wouldnt kick off at any driver no matter the reason. my mam turned around and said to the operator how can you blame us when it was your fault what happened. the operator threatened again and my mam turned around and said just cancel it. she then blacklisted the house. 5 minutes later. the taxi turned up and i sent him away feeling sorry for the driver because it wasnt his fault. fair enough i should have been alot calmer but it wasnt me to blame. it was a male operator with a scottish or irish accent who i phoned earlier in the day to pre book the taxi.
@ian shanks: i am glad for you. i find berwick drivers alright as long as they don’t get lost and dont go hacking in newcastle. Actually, there is a bigger issue out there, airport taxis. How can you have plates from a load of different areas working on newcastle soil. You then have the nt hacks coming down here when the airport is not good enough for them. jumping in the queue at the metro rank in shields and nicking all the drivers work from driver who have been sitting since 7am only going home some days with 20 quid. i know someone who is an airport driver and he says working the streets and a saturday night is like christmas to him. to the drivers at shields rank, it is their main earnings.
@ian shanks: i was olny using addison lee as an example
Not many offices left for BLT to buy, a monopoly is on its way.
@John Smith: good on blueline. buying preston means that blueline will be able to respond quicker to areas east of the a19 because you will have the preston regulars phoning and if people east af the a19 phone all day, that means that there will always be cars avilable east of the a19 without the long waiting times
@ian shanks: mr shanks please answer me why a few years ago on local radio you stated that the taxi business and i quote was no longer an attractive business to be in.. and now a couple of years down the line when things have never been as bad economically everything in your garden is rosy.. maybe you should try sitting behind the wheel.. ps its on the right hand side !
I@jonny x: i can not fault the majority of the drivers. i can however say that the switch operators are slacking especially in the case i pointed out down below. there was also another time where i phoned up at tescos on norham road and asked if it was possible if she could get me and my mam a doublo because we didnt think it would fit in a saloon. she questioned back “fiat doublo”. then i replied yes a big vehicle. 1 minute later, i was that pissed off i just gave the phone to my mam and my mam hung up. never mind wanting 1000 drivers ian, you need give your operators a good dressing down and a awaking call. who is going to be next in the blueline monopoly. battle hill, silverline, black and white. it will be one of these three next.
Black & White, Venus and High View are the last of the small operators not long before they are swallowed up, I hear Battle Hill are looking to buy another office.
@David: was this blue line or Preston ?
also didyou report it to office if Blue Line as we have all calls recorded and no one has the authority to black list a job other than managers
anyway contact me at the office and i shall look into it even thou its some time ago as this should not have happened
@jonny x: when I said it’s not an attractive business to be in I may have meant that some of the fare paying public at nights are not exactly “compos mentis” or in some cases threatening to the driver who is only doing his job I may not have been referring to money
@ian shanks: thanks for that reply. it was blueline. you dont need to bother looking into it as i will just call it a once in a blue moon thing.
@ian shanks: i agree about fares but you can use cheap rates as long as you have the work to cover it
@john smith: battle hill will go for silverline or b and w
it is ok ian to buy all these firms as long as the drivers stand by you which im sure they will. I am not actually a taxi driver but one of my relatives is one
@David: if yo or anyone has such troubles again let us know please, while we can not put it right after the event we do address where we or the driver has failed. cheers
@David: your welcome to visit our operation and see for yourselve how we run, the work we have and loose ! just let me know
@ian shanks: are its ok i understand how you run now ian. i 100% agree that you dont need to put the rates up now. I dont mind berwick plates ian as long as they have a reasonable idea of the areas which yours do
I would guess Silverline are to big, High View may be?
@John Smith: either high view or b and w. Battle hill charge extra if they leave the wallsend area to pick u up
@David: apparently blueline cars have to honour the Preston set fares……don’t know for how long for……
@second class citizen: has preston still got autocab or now got auriga
pungy nearly bought preston last noovember and were going to merge it with tyneside.
mr shanks.. in said interview the subject was the spiralling cost of diesel when it peaked at £1.30 per litre.. thats when you stated the business was no longer an attractive business to be in. nothing wrong with my memory.. i await your reply..
@jonny x: your memory must be better than mine ! it’s not as attractive job! maybe i agree when it comes to drivers having to work long unsociable hours, with undesirables at times. what is attractive about it compared to being a bar tender in a nudist colony ? but it’s a job and I as many are to say we are proud its give us our livings all our working lives
Some of the people in this job or inherent moaners, and make bad decisions on where they work because they prefer the soft sofa in the office and the crack !
Others are so stuck in their ways and have failed to move with the times.
but the facts speak for itself, this industry either locally in North Tyneside, Tyne and Wear, or even nationally creates more jobs than most other industry’s with over 400,000 people directly making a wage from the job.
So if you’re not happy and want me to say it’s a unattractive job (profit wise )as that’s what you believe then my suggestion to you is move on and stop bringing the trade down with your negative attitude
Have I said what you wanted me to say ??
David I hear High View has been approached by Silverline, think another one may be gone.
@deno: has foxhunters had any intrest in brierdene lately
Think Eastcoast/Foxhunters will be interested in any office near the coast now that blueline are moving in that direction. We could end up with just 4 big operators on North Tyne soon!
i was waiting 45 mins for a taxi a few weeks back
from preston
i was told a blueline taxi would pick me up from a girl on the desk named sarah!
I was told my taxi would be with me asap.
i waited 15mins and called back to ask how long ect..
i was then told the taxi was 30 seconds away
it wasnt!! I wating another 15 mins to be told my taxi was actually outside where i was waiting which it wasnt
I was then told it was a new driver who had picked up the job and the taxi was 2 mins away
in the end i cancelled the taxi!!
I dont mind blueline i use preston all the time
i just dont want to be lied to by a desk assistant id rather just know the crack!
to say the least tho
Ian Shanks is a smart man
blue line is doing well